Losing the will to live with this!

[Naffman]

Problem is Deggsy is that whenever you ask a question on here you never get a definitive answer & that you're expected to "work it out for yourself" whilst losing (like I have) whilst learning.

Some people on here will take to it like a duck to water, however people like me will try time & time & time again with some encouraging fleeting success that keeps you coming back only to get knocked down again.

What I'm trying to say is that I've tried this tried that, done a course blah blah & I'm still down around 5 figures in an effort to get anywhere near good, I do frequent the forum as I still look for clues as to how to get there, however I never hold my breath over it, fair play to those who can but I sympathise with those who can't.

I guarantee that if you found your edge you wouldn't tell anyone, you'd be lying if you said you would!

[Korattt]

that's just it Naffman, I've tried this & tried that & just cannot find an edge, tried scalping recently, total car crash

[ShaunWhite]

Problem is Deggsy is that whenever you ask a question on here you never get a definitive answer & that you're expected to "work it out for yourself"

I don't think there are any 'definitive' answers to all but the most basic questions, too many variables both internal and external. There isn't a grand conspiracy to hide the secrets, but thankfully there's a lot of people who'll give you a net even if they can't give you a fish.

If you think it's hard now, I first dabbled in 2002 when there was NO information and it cost me dearly. It's the opposite these days. There's a huge box full of jigsaw pieces, but from several pictures, you have to pick the ones that make the picture that suits you. That's more than enough waffle again from the poundshop Confucius.

[ruthlessimon]

Watched this recently, applies to trading. just replace "law" for "edge": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OL6-x0modwY

Gotta love Feynman

[ShaunWhite]

that's just it Naffman, I've tried this & tried that & just cannot find an edge, tried scalping recently, total car crash

I used to flit from one thing to another and none of it worked, evey failure was another nail in my confidence. Then I realised nothing was ever going to work doing that (10/10 fails).

So i've just stuck to one little simple way of doing things (surely I can do ONE thing if I practice enough!) and it's slowly getting better. When that's in the bag, I'll do one other little thing until that works, and repeat. I'm not smart enough to learn a dozen methods in a year, but I am bl**dy stubburn enough to learn one.

[max_usted]

V. interesting posts Shaun/Simon. Not trying to hijack, but a quick question if I may. I started about a year ago and made a lot in my first month then lost (most of) it in the second. I've been trading with small stakes ever since (10 months now). I'm going to try larger stakes again this month.

I can make regular profits using the techniques I have (when using small stakes)... but in the last two/three months, I believe I have become able to see so much more profit/opportunity in the market (outside of my narrow orthodoxies).

However if I'm not concentrating fully, or if I'm too wet, I consistently fail to accept the risk in the trades I can see that I should be making. For instance, I had nine trades (outside of my usual techniques) lined up last night and pulled out of all of them! When I notice that the first one would have been successful, the thought of the subsequent failing is too painful, if you see what I mean.

Can you relate to this at all given your own previous experiences, and if so, (and given identifying learning stages is important), which stage do you think this is??

"made a lot in my first month then lost (most of) it in the second" That in itself is a lightbulb moment. You realise you have no edge.

Straight away that takes you into stage 2 (i.e. small stakes/practise mode, aware that you know nothing, begin experimenting with ideas). Also it's important to understand 'idea creation' is very, very, very, very hard!!! I personally spend most of my day trying to come up with new ideas. Similar to talking to girls at bars. It takes a special kind of person to come back after having failure, after failure, after failure. I think this where the majority of traders give up

Also, speaking personally, when I fail to accept risk (& this applies to pulling orders) on a trade, that means I don't understand the trade concept well enough. It means I need to do a lot more work in understanding my process & edge (back into stage 2). People wrongly assume it's a psychology problem - it's an edge problem (usually). This again leads back to idea creation.

You'll know if you're in stage 4 (year 3), because you'll have moved onto a new sport!

Ok great, understand this and v. interesting advice.

[deggsy10]

Thanks for the reply's guys. I'm surprised and quite overwhelmed by the amount of encouraging posts.

I am not financially reliant on making money from trading and I have about 8k left from my matched betting exploits. So there is no pressure in that respect. However my ultimate aim was to become good enough at trading so I can give up my job which I hate.

That said it is still gutting to lose money. I can accept losing a few quid on a race but losing £50 on one bad trade is gutting. I decided that if I lose any more than 1k I will quit so I still have a buffer but I really don't feel like going back to looking at those ladders after last night's hell.

Can I just ask, what exactly is automation and how does it help you trade profitably? Somebody has mentioned greyhounds. How exactly would I use automation to profit from greyhounds?

[jimibt]

Can I just ask, what exactly is automation and how does it help you trade profitably? Somebody has mentioned greyhounds. How exactly would I use automation to profit from greyhounds?

you'd make them all into robots and at home (via your pc) have a master control to choose which runner lost/won etc

IF ONLY !! so automation is a construct which sits inside the bet angel application and allows you to define rules which substitute the actions that you would take during a race. in theory, we should be able to automate everything, as recurring patterns are the foundation of chaos (if you get my drift). however, any automation is only as good as the knowledge that is pumped into them, so going from manual to automation is a HUGE task. also, many things that we do when looking at a race can theoretically be replaced using automation but in reality are very nuanced and not easily translated.

In short, automation is a rules based construct that is placed atop any event. however, as you'll find, there is not a *one fits all* implementation that can be slapped on at 9:00am and produce a kerching at 21:00. It really is a function that describes and performs the process(es) that you'd manually undertake inside the lifetime of an event.

phew...

[glen10]

to me, automation is something i will only try with something i can already do manually. i think the thought process you use manually helps with creating the automation file, which im still not very good at.! try looking at some of the shared files and adapt them to suit your needs, this is how i have started with the process.
the automation helps me by alowing a strategy to run itself whilst i work on others and practice my scalping, may be different reasons for others as though.

[iambic_pentameter]

I think whether trading manually or automatically, there is no substitute for hard work in identifying an edge.

I can't recall where I heard it exactly but someone said you need to go through multiple market cycles before you can confidently say you know what is happening.

From my own personal perspective, I think that would be 3 years worth of racing markets.

Of course, some people might say that is a long time and question if it is worth it but, I would argue that if you went to university, it would take 3 years to get your qualification - more in some cases.

Trading - whether that be sports, commodities, financials etc - is no different.

Iambic

[Joeybside]

I've been trading now for a couple of years. I can't say I'm trading seriously because I still lack some of the definitive traits that a good rookie trader requires. Have blown a few banks but luckily, most of my training banks are very little but grow to be a good size based on percentage return. I try and turn £10 into £250, withdraw and then start again.

This month, I've returned to trading after a good few months out to reset. Have started with a £10 on the 17th June and at present grown the bank to £78.50 with no day loss figures. I work on trying to achieve a percentage turnover but I don't set targets. I've read a lot of books, forums and training videos but I prefer to establish my own mindset and accept my strategy can cause failures and I accept the consequences based on not setting stop losses or trading out for a loss although this has changed a lot in the last few days.

There is no overnight fix to establishing yourself as a trader. It is a long term personal project and I ask yourself you review what you actually want to gain from it and why you are doing it. If it's to be rich, this isn't the project for you I'm afraid

[iambic_pentameter]

As has often been said on here:

"Slow and steady wins the race"

Good work on the progress.