My trading journey so far (I'd love to hear yours too)

[eightbo]

Thanks for sharing, Korattt

It's not the amount that bothers me, what does bother me is the amount of time it's taking me to get to a level where I'm able to do this fulltime

Perhaps the source of your frustration lies within your goals.

Motivational theory shows us that we remain satisfied and motivated when we're making tangible progress.
It's definitely healthy to have high aspirations, but if your more challenging goals aren't properly broken down, you're at risk of losing that satisfaction/motivation, and without those things it can mean we don't make further progress. I suspect this may have happened to you when you talk about falling in and out of love with trading numerous times?

For anyone who doesn't have short and medium-term goals, I'd recommend creating some by identifying your mistakes and flipping them on their head.
Try complementing this with a reward system and scale up the goals as you achieve them to enter a motivational cycle of progress.

No doubt everyone's heard that setting monetary goals or targets can be a bad idea as it can lead to forcing trades, overstaking etc., but I believe they can be justified (assuming you're following your processes correctly), if it means you'll receive a high amount of satisfaction when you achieve those goals.

For example one of my first goals was 'stick to my trading plan explicitly and earn £20' and my reward was to spend most of it on a takeaway. I was using a £100 bank at the time and this is something that I had done many times before, but it had never given me any real satisfaction until I had set it as a goal, achieved it, and experienced the reward. Checking our goals off allows our brain to translate that into knowledge that we're making progress, fueling our momentum forward.

I think too many novice traders (myself included) tend to look for that one thing wrong with their trading which, if they could just fix, would of course mean they would be a profitable trader! That idea is so pleasant to our imaginations that it enters our minds so easily. Of course the reality is there's many factors which make someone profitable and so it makes sense to be setting goals (and making progress) in different areas, just don't focus on too many things at once.

Constantly having a goal just around the corner (scaling up existing goals) should help you focus on each day and reviewing a list of your completed goals can be a great tool to boost confidence in the future.

[Korattt]

Thanks for sharing, Korattt

It's not the amount that bothers me, what does bother me is the amount of time it's taking me to get to a level where I'm able to do this fulltime

Perhaps the source of your frustration lies within your goals.

Motivational theory shows us that we remain satisfied and motivated when we're making tangible progress.
It's definitely healthy to have high aspirations, but if your more challenging goals aren't properly broken down, you're at risk of losing that satisfaction/motivation, and without those things it can mean we don't make further progress. I suspect this may have happened to you when you talk about falling in and out of love with trading numerous times?

For anyone who doesn't have short and medium-term goals, I'd recommend creating some by identifying your mistakes and flipping them on their head.
Try complementing this with a reward system and scale up the goals as you achieve them to enter a motivational cycle of progress.

No doubt everyone's heard that setting monetary goals or targets can be a bad idea as it can lead to forcing trades, overstaking etc., but I believe they can be justified (assuming you're following your processes correctly), if it means you'll receive a high amount of satisfaction when you achieve those goals.

For example one of my first goals was 'stick to my trading plan explicitly and earn £20' and my reward was to spend most of it on a takeaway. I was using a £100 bank at the time and this is something that I had done many times before, but it had never given me any real satisfaction until I had set it as a goal, achieved it, and experienced the reward. Checking our goals off allows our brain to translate that into knowledge that we're making progress, fueling our momentum forward.

I think too many novice traders (myself included) tend to look for that one thing wrong with their trading which, if they could just fix, would of course mean they would be a profitable trader! That idea is so pleasant to our imaginations that it enters our minds so easily. Of course the reality is there's many factors which make someone profitable and so it makes sense to be setting goals (and making progress) in different areas, just don't focus on too many things at once.

Constantly having a goal just around the corner (scaling up existing goals) should help you focus on each day and reviewing a list of your completed goals can be a great tool to boost confidence in the future.

some good points there

[LeTiss]

In 1989 I finished my A-Levels. I was a number cruncher and begrudgingly decided Accountancy might be the career for me. The problem was the prospect of Accountancy bored me - I was a young lad who enjoyed the wrong things too much - I liked to drink, loved having a bet, and was constantly looking for fresh bit of skirt to chase. I thought taking a year out would be a good idea, and ended up as a Trainee Betting Shop Manager for Ladbrokes. I was the last batch of trainee managers to get sent on a course for settling bets on a calculator - we were taught how to form markets etc, and as a number cruncher I excelled. I stayed for 5 years, and didn't go into Accountancy.

A number of years later, when working in Sales, internet betting came in. As a sports punter, I loved having new companies to bet with - Bet365, Stan James, Blue Square. Then of course, Betfair arrived. Initially, I enjoyed just backing for better prices, but then started using my market making knowledge to lay whole books. Eventually, of course, I saw the benefits of just trading on prices. Initially though, I failed. I lost significant sums letting bad trades go IP. As a former punter, I had to rewire my brain to be a trader - as a punter you are used to getting a run for your money, but as a trader you sometimes have to accept a loss before the match or race has even started. That's a difficult mental obstacle to overcome for gamblers

I eventually managed it though. Come 2008, I was bored of sales, and couldn't wait for the weekends, so I could trade. I was made redundant in June 2008, and decided to give myself 6 months as a full-time trader to see if I could make it work. I'm just about to celebrate 10 years

That's my journey

[brimson25]

Did you ever have a point Le Tiss when you thought - oh bvgger, I'm not going to make this?

Asking for a friend

[LeTiss]

Did you ever have a point Le Tiss when you thought - oh bvgger, I'm not going to make this?

Asking for a friend

Of course, yes

I had an eye watering loss on New Years Day 2008 (£2000), and decided I had 2 choices
A) Either Change
B) Accept Defeat

I'd got to the point where carrying on as before was no longer an option

Everytime I had a red screen, I would reward myself for trading out and accepting the loss. I remember having a phase of loving Toblerone at the time, so everytime a trade went wrong and I avoided going IP, I'd celebrate with a triangle of Toblerone!

Eventually, I found that it became second nature, and accepting red screens was simply part of the game

Another tactic of mine was how I staked. I'd noticed that my %S/R was about 75% - so even though my losing trades only equated for 25%, the losses would dwarf the winners, as I either got out too late, or would massively overstake to compensate for previous losers.

Therefore, I decided to approach this game as being all about ticks - if my tick sizes were always equal, then surely if I'm winning 75% of my trades, I must be able to at least break even, and that would be a start. If I set a target of winning £2 per tick (after greening), then that would safeguard me from disasters. That meant if I backed a 1.80 selection, the stakes would be £360. If I backed 2.42 the stakes would be £242. If I layed 6.60, the stakes would be £68 etc - I set up Excel to calculate all the permutations for me!

However, my losing trades were now always only £2 per tick, and this gave me the power to happily trade out for a loss, as I knew I was still going to be profitable over the course of the day. I basically tried to make a profit of level ticks each day, the money simply followed

Peter Webb has always been dubious about that tactic, but I can assure you, I wouldn't be here now if I hadn't done that. When you have a gambling background, the psychology of trading is far more problematic than reading graphs, or predicting the direction of a price

I don't do those level ticks now, but it was key in enabling me to intially navigate through those shark infested waters

[ShaunWhite]

I remember having a phase of loving Toblerone at the time

[ruthlessimon]

Therefore, I decided to approach this game as being all about ticks - if my tick sizes were always equal, then surely if I'm winning 75% of my trades, I must be able to at least break even, and that would be a start. If I set a target of winning £2 per tick (after greening), then that would safeguard me from disasters. That meant if I backed a 1.80 selection, the stakes would be £360. If I backed 2.42 the stakes would be £242. If I layed 6.60, the stakes would be £68 etc - I set up Excel to calculate all the permutations for me!

This is sound. I'd love to understand Peter's stance; although I'm firmly in your camp Tiss

It's the one feature I actively miss from the "other software" (wasn't always an Angel!) ; but it'd be soooo easy to implement!

[ShaunWhite]

Therefore, I decided to approach this game as being all about ticks

+1 imvho.
You can't tell new guys it's not about the money, and then not give them something else to think about.

[ShaunWhite]

it'd be soooo easy to implement!

It's your proverbial one-liner in the staking object, done before the kettle's boiled.
What is 'By tick size' supposed to acheive?

[LeTiss]

Therefore, I decided to approach this game as being all about ticks

+1 imvho.
You can't tell new guys it's not about the money, and then not give them something else to think about.

This is why I'm a little sceptical about BA users spending too much time in the practice area of the software. Playing with real money makes you react differently to playing with fake cash. Also, with fake cash you tend to be too indifferent to losers, as you know it's not for real. If you're too nervous about playing with £2 stakes initially, then how are you going to find the balls to play with £100 etc.

Also, I've lost count about the number of new posters we've seen over the years, saying they want £100 per day, £200 per day.......
My advice is to forget about the money for a second. Treat all trades as ticks - if you make a profit of ticks, the money will come
That's because in my experience, the people that lose here, are not people who have lose 25 trades successively, they are people who succumb to disasters, and that is invariably due to having an aversion to losers

[brimson25]

Did you ever have a point Le Tiss when you thought - oh bvgger, I'm not going to make this?

Asking for a friend

Of course, yes

I had an eye watering loss on New Years Day 2008 (£2000), and decided I had 2 choices
A) Either Change
B) Accept Defeat

I'd got to the point where carrying on as before was no longer an option

Everytime I had a red screen, I would reward myself for trading out and accepting the loss. I remember having a phase of loving Toblerone at the time, so everytime a trade went wrong and I avoided going IP, I'd celebrate with a triangle of Toblerone!

Eventually, I found that it became second nature, and accepting red screens was simply part of the game

Another tactic of mine was how I staked. I'd noticed that my %S/R was about 75% - so even though my losing trades only equated for 25%, the losses would dwarf the winners, as I either got out too late, or would massively overstake to compensate for previous losers.

Therefore, I decided to approach this game as being all about ticks - if my tick sizes were always equal, then surely if I'm winning 75% of my trades, I must be able to at least break even, and that would be a start. If I set a target of winning £2 per tick (after greening), then that would safeguard me from disasters. That meant if I backed a 1.80 selection, the stakes would be £360. If I backed 2.42 the stakes would be £242. If I layed 6.60, the stakes would be £68 etc - I set up Excel to calculate all the permutations for me!

However, my losing trades were now always only £2 per tick, and this gave me the power to happily trade out for a loss, as I knew I was still going to be profitable over the course of the day. I basically tried to make a profit of level ticks each day, the money simply followed

Peter Webb has always been dubious about that tactic, but I can assure you, I wouldn't be here now if I hadn't done that. When you have a gambling background, the psychology of trading is far more problematic than reading graphs, or predicting the direction of a price

I don't do those level ticks now, but it was key in enabling me to intially navigate through those shark infested waters

Thanks for your reply.

I had a very predictable experience yesterday: I got dumbly frustrated with winning small amounts, I took stupid risks and had a losing day. I learnt that losing (a little) is worse than winning (a little).

I should know better.

[ruthlessimon]

What is 'By tick size' supposed to acheive?

When I say ticks - I mean equal when hedged (i.e. £5 per tick - make 5 ticks (hedge it) - £25 profit after commision). Doesn't matter if it's a runner @ 10.0 or 2.0; if I make/lose 5 ticks, I know I'm making +/-£25

Just means that there's never a staking mistake (& allows more brain power devoted to market reading) - but you'd need to make sure the market/runner can take the per tick stakes. In theory that could be a new BA feature too! "Can the market take my stakes?"

[ShaunWhite]

What is 'By tick size' supposed to acheive?

When I say ticks - I mean equal when hedged

Yep I know, I mean't the existing 'By tick size' staking option.

[eightbo]

Everytime I had a red screen, I would reward myself for trading out and accepting the loss. I remember having a phase of loving Toblerone at the time, so everytime a trade went wrong and I avoided going IP, I'd celebrate with a triangle of Toblerone!

Eventually, I found that it became second nature, and accepting red screens was simply part of the game

Another tactic of mine was how I staked. I'd noticed that my %S/R was about 75% - so even though my losing trades only equated for 25%, the losses would dwarf the winners, as I either got out too late, or would massively overstake to compensate for previous losers.

Therefore, I decided to approach this game as being all about ticks

thanks for posting, what you mentioned sounds scarily familiar!

Noticing high strike rate → leveling out tick sizes and seeing things in terms of ticks
Problems with loss aversion → switching tactics to rewarding/feeling good about taking a loss

I have an absolutely disgusting graph of market results from 2015 across 749 markets where I have 80% Strike rate (600W/149L) but ended up down massively due to OS/chasing. Actually, I incorporated in my routine to look at my graph of lifetime results before any trading session to remind me of what will happen if I don't accept losses as they arrive. Can't say for sure that taking losses is second nature to me but it feels noticeably more comfortable recently -- don't eat a bit of toblerone but use a visualisation technique to remind myself how taking the loss prevents the bigger and more destructive losses, then do some silly dance (recommended in a TED talk ), of course I'll remain prudent but it's refreshing to hear you've eventually made it work with these methods

[trader44]

I'd celebrate with a triangle of Toblerone! "
when le tiss hit 48 stones he decided rewarding himself with an apple was the healthier option