Utterly Ridiculous!

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oliver123
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I could not believe my eyes this afternoon. It was the 2:50 at Newmarket. The race was a 2m handicap. And guess what? They put the bloody horses in starting stalls. Oi, for f*ck's sake it's a 2-mile race! Total bonkers! I mean who is gonna get an advantage with a normal free start in a 2m race? Answer? Nobody :roll: Is this the directions of that f*cking patronising racing authority the BHA?
Anna List
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Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 11:49 am

oliver123 wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 3:02 pm
I could not believe my eyes this afternoon. It was the 2:50 at Newmarket. The race was a 2m handicap. And guess what? They put the bloody horses in starting stalls. Oi, for f*ck's sake it's a 2-mile race! Total bonkers! I mean who is gonna get an advantage with a normal free start in a 2m race? Answer? Nobody :roll: Is this the directions of that f*cking patronising racing authority the BHA?
'Tis indeed the self same set of f*cking, senile, incompetent dolts that banned Harry Findlay back in 2010.

I wrote to the BHA back then and suggested, given their Findlay ruling, that it would be a kindness if the set of old farts, that constituted the BHA, were taken out into the car park and shot. I even got a reply from one Turia Tellwright who, one might say, was not amused. by my suggestion. Shame :roll: .
Trader Pat
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Anna List wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 3:19 pm
'Tis indeed the self same set of f*cking, senile, incompetent dolts that banned Harry Findlay back in 2010.
Funny you should mention Harry Findlay, a few days ago I came across this article he gave to the Guardian last year https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/ ... n-fare-mum

Here he is having a go at Betfair :

Findlay lets rip with an amusing rant against cash-outs and the current betting industry which is too libellous to be repeated here, but he does make a salient point that it is “wrong that, as every winning bet pays Betfair a commission, small players should have to pay 5% while big players only pay 2%. It’s nearly impossible to win over a long period of time if you’re paying 5% rather than 2%. We need a new betting platform.”

Bit of a silly comment imo especially as if he would have used Betfair he could have laid off all his liability on NZ at very short odds when they were leading 13-3 :oops:
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Derek27
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oliver123 wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 3:02 pm
I could not believe my eyes this afternoon. It was the 2:50 at Newmarket. The race was a 2m handicap. And guess what? They put the bloody horses in starting stalls. Oi, for f*ck's sake it's a 2-mile race! Total bonkers! I mean who is gonna get an advantage with a normal free start in a 2m race? Answer? Nobody :roll: Is this the directions of that f*cking patronising racing authority the BHA?
Should the St. Ledger have a flag start, it's just 1.6 furlongs short of two miles? And what about the Derby, three-quarters the distance of the race you mentioned?

The answer to your question, who will get an advantage, is, the front runners - they will have a head start and in NH racing it can often be 8-10 lengths!
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Derek27
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Trader Pat wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 4:07 pm
Bit of a silly comment imo especially as if he would have used Betfair he could have laid off all his liability on NZ at very short odds when they were leading 13-3 :oops:
That's an understatement - you can't win paying 5% commission!!!

All the big players must have lost a lot to acquire the points necessary to reduce their commission!!!
Trader Pat
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Derek27 wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 4:18 pm
Trader Pat wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 4:07 pm
Bit of a silly comment imo especially as if he would have used Betfair he could have laid off all his liability on NZ at very short odds when they were leading 13-3 :oops:
That's an understatement - you can't win paying 5% commission!!!

All the big players must have lost a lot to acquire the points necessary to reduce their commission!!!
Must be true though, the reporter called it a 'salient point' :D
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Derek27
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Location: UK

Trader Pat wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 4:25 pm
Derek27 wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 4:18 pm
Trader Pat wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 4:07 pm
Bit of a silly comment imo especially as if he would have used Betfair he could have laid off all his liability on NZ at very short odds when they were leading 13-3 :oops:
That's an understatement - you can't win paying 5% commission!!!

All the big players must have lost a lot to acquire the points necessary to reduce their commission!!!
Must be true though, the reporter called it a 'salient point' :D
It's just clicked - what he means is that it's impossible for him to win on 5% commission. His style of gambling/trading probably involves large stakes, small percentages, I can see him making a 3% profit.
Halliday
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Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2016 3:40 pm

oliver123 wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 3:02 pm
I could not believe my eyes this afternoon. It was the 2:50 at Newmarket. The race was a 2m handicap. And guess what? They put the bloody horses in starting stalls. Oi, for f*ck's sake it's a 2-mile race! Total bonkers! I mean who is gonna get an advantage with a normal free start in a 2m race? Answer? Nobody :roll: Is this the directions of that f*cking patronising racing authority the BHA?

Your comment is “ utterly ridiculous “ ...

Believe it or not draw advantage and track position does matter in the longer distance races at many tracks on the Flat Chester cup being an obvious example, but the draw has paid a key role in races like the Northumberland plate and the Cesarewitch over the years .

Think Salisbury has a distance race which is a flag start, and on soft ground riders try and get track position and or jump the start to gain an advantage .

From the BHA...

As races are shorter on the Flat, it’s important that the participants begin in as straight a line as possible. For longer races (and that includes some long Flat races as well as all Jump races), riders often want to take up a tactical position that they believe offers their horse its best chance to perform well. For some, that might mean going out in front, whilst for others it might mean taking a lead from another horse or dropping in at the back of the field.
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Derek27
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Many people who don't study horse racing don't realise what a difference there is in pace, between a two-mile chase and a two-mile flat race.

Obviously, two-mile chasers are forced to slow down drastically to jump each and every fence, and that dictates the pace of the race, whereas a two-mile flat race can be run at a frantic, stamina-sapping pace, and that's where a fair start is crucial.
Halliday
Posts: 460
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Derek27 wrote:
Sun Nov 04, 2018 12:02 am
Many people who don't study horse racing don't realise what a difference there is in pace, between a two-mile chase and a two-mile flat race.

Obviously, two-mile chasers are forced to slow down drastically to jump each and every fence, and that dictates the pace of the race, whereas a two-mile flat race can be run at a frantic, stamina-sapping pace, and that's where a fair start is crucial.
Leaving aside his “sniping videos “ I’m afraid Oliver is prone to making “utterly ridiculous “ statements , I well remember him advising not to use automation and saying

“as simple as that! I've been on Betfair since 2006 and ALWAYS play in-running!! Oh, and I've made a lot of money!!!!! “

For someone who is so successful and always plays in running, you would expect him to understand the importance of the start and why starting stalls are used, and how advantages could be gained were they not to be used .
Hibby
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Halliday wrote:
Sat Nov 03, 2018 10:36 pm
oliver123 wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 3:02 pm
I could not believe my eyes this afternoon. It was the 2:50 at Newmarket. The race was a 2m handicap. And guess what? They put the bloody horses in starting stalls. Oi, for f*ck's sake it's a 2-mile race! Total bonkers! I mean who is gonna get an advantage with a normal free start in a 2m race? Answer? Nobody :roll: Is this the directions of that f*cking patronising racing authority the BHA?

Your comment is “ utterly ridiculous “ ...

Believe it or not draw advantage and track position does matter in the longer distance races at many tracks on the Flat Chester cup being an obvious example, but the draw has paid a key role in races like the Northumberland plate and the Cesarewitch over the years .

Think Salisbury has a distance race which is a flag start, and on soft ground riders try and get track position and or jump the start to gain an advantage .

From the BHA...

As races are shorter on the Flat, it’s important that the participants begin in as straight a line as possible. For longer races (and that includes some long Flat races as well as all Jump races), riders often want to take up a tactical position that they believe offers their horse its best chance to perform well. For some, that might mean going out in front, whilst for others it might mean taking a lead from another horse or dropping in at the back of the field.
I agree with this, the OP show a total lack of knwledge of how hores racing is set up in the UK, generally all racing run under the "flat code" has starting stalls to ensure a "level break" as the distances are shorter, indeed the maximum distance run on the flat is 2m (if there is a longer race I havent heard of it).

Under NH rules the minimum distance is generally the same 2m (ok, some are 1m7f & xxx yards) and the need for a totally level start simply is not the same as jockeys have time to sort themselves out, get the early position the like and run a more tactical race, bearing in mind the longest race over NH rules is upwards of 4 and a half miles!

To add to tracks where even at longer distances draw can play a part I would say Beverley is another, although they have done some work there in recent years to lessen this although the straight course is still very biased.... For those who havent been to beverley, on one side the track is relatively flat but about halfway across the track slopes away so those on the wrong side of the draw end up basically running across the side of a hill or having to cut across it to get to the flatter bit. Draw bias in flat racing has always fascinated me as has C/D form, take today's racing, Plumpton is a very tight track, only about a mile round with an uphill finish, very much a courses for horses who have performed well there before.
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ANGELS15
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Actually Hibby there are a few flat races longer than 2m. The Queen Alexandria stakes at Royal Ascot is just over 2m 6f. However througout the calendar there's the odd 2m 4f, 2m 2f. Pontefract also stages a 2m 5f+ race plus a few over 2m.
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Derek27
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The main difference between the start of flat and NH races isn't so much the race distance but the fact that NH horses have a hurdle or fence to jump shortly after the start, and that drastically limits the speed they can start at and the advantage of a fast start. I think Goodwood may still use a flag start for 2.5 miles (the Goodwood Cup used to be 2m 5f) and it really doesn't matter over that sort of distance, but I think that's really for convenience, because the stalls would have to be removed quickly after start.
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