Trading Horse racing : New Trader trying to Stop Going In-Play

The sport of kings.
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luckytrader
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2019 11:07 pm

Sun Mar 03, 2019 5:37 pm

hi am new trader being doing it 3 month since i packed my job in . i found the markets ok untill the last 2 races at huntingdon then blew my whole bank by going in play . i will never learn invested 3k and have blown it in last few month but i still feel i can be a success at this if i just get the gambler out of me and start trading . last to races i was only 10 quid in red before of then thought i get it back in play and the worst does happen and i blew 450 in last 2 races . i being doing ok but looking back going in play is killing me i got to stop . but like a boxer you take it on chin and tomorrow another day . its just a pain as i got to deposit my last 1k and if it goes t..ts up then thats it no more mistakes . first 4 races was 80.00 quid up without going inplay then had few broon ales and i was invincible . sorry for rambling but i had to reply to a post before i could mame my own post . cheers lads be lucky . paul the daft trader

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eightbo
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Location: Bristol, England, UK
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Sun Mar 03, 2019 7:21 pm

luckytrader wrote:
Sun Mar 03, 2019 5:37 pm
hi am new trader being doing it 3 month since i packed my job in . i found the markets ok untill the last 2 races at huntingdon then blew my whole bank by going in play . i will never learn invested 3k and have blown it in last few month but i still feel i can be a success at this if i just get the gambler out of me and start trading . last to races i was only 10 quid in red before of then thought i get it back in play and the worst does happen and i blew 450 in last 2 races . i being doing ok but looking back going in play is killing me i got to stop . but like a boxer you take it on chin and tomorrow another day . its just a pain as i got to deposit my last 1k and if it goes t..ts up then thats it no more mistakes . first 4 races was 80.00 quid up without going inplay then had few broon ales and i was invincible . sorry for rambling but i had to reply to a post before i could mame my own post . cheers lads be lucky . paul the daft trader
Welcome, Paul.
Whatever ya do, don't deposit that £1,000, you will blow it (trust me I've been there).

Being a boxer and taking hits on the chin is all well and good but you need to think of In-Play as a knockout blow.
You're trying to box with the big boys before you've learned how to avoid getting K.O.'d

With practice, you can learn to see those heavy blows before they occur — there will be cues in your trading.
Record your screen in all markets and look back to see what happened leading up to In Play.

I'd recommend using 10x £100 banks, that's a nice balance between still having some skin in the game and not taking too much damage when you take those big shots. Also never measure your performance in the short-term based on how much £££ you're making — you can trade flawlessly and be down because you're relying on other people to make money. It's about mastering what you do have control of.

spreadbetting
Posts: 2057
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:06 pm

Sun Mar 03, 2019 7:41 pm

Good luck with your last £1k, sometimes we have to learn the hard way. Packing in your job and blowing £3k should be a big enough lesson to focus you. If you blow this £1k the same way it's probably best to realise trading for a living is a bit of a pipedream and look for another job.

Derek27
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Location: UK

Mon Mar 04, 2019 12:35 am

luckytrader wrote:
Sun Mar 03, 2019 5:37 pm
hi am new trader being doing it 3 month since i packed my job in . i found the markets ok untill the last 2 races at huntingdon then blew my whole bank by going in play . i will never learn invested 3k and have blown it in last few month but i still feel i can be a success at this if i just get the gambler out of me and start trading . last to races i was only 10 quid in red before of then thought i get it back in play and the worst does happen and i blew 450 in last 2 races . i being doing ok but looking back going in play is killing me i got to stop . but like a boxer you take it on chin and tomorrow another day . its just a pain as i got to deposit my last 1k and if it goes t..ts up then thats it no more mistakes . first 4 races was 80.00 quid up without going inplay then had few broon ales and i was invincible . sorry for rambling but i had to reply to a post before i could mame my own post . cheers lads be lucky . paul the daft trader
If you're new to trading there's not much you can learn with £1000 bank that you can't learn with £100 using smaller stakes.

It's a problem many traders, if not all traders, have experienced. Certain strategies win nearly all the time and lead you into a false sense of security, until the market goes against you and you realise how much you were risking to make small profits, how much you can lose when it goes wrong or when your emotions get tested.

I started becoming profitable at trading when I gradually learnt to cut out all the avoidable mistakes, such as over staking, letting bad trades get too big, etc.

I hope trading is something you just happen to be doing with your extra free time rather than an actual career change.

I would recommend that you use a smaller bank and smaller stakes until you are consistently profitable and got the gambler out of you - make a grand, don't blow a grand!
luckytrader wrote:
Sun Mar 03, 2019 5:37 pm
...but i still feel i can be a success at this if i just get the gambler out of me and start trading .
I really hate to burst your bubble, but everybody would make a success of trading if they could cut out all their mistakes - that's one of the most difficult aspects of trading.

Good luck.

stockdale51
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2016 5:47 pm

Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:14 am

hi
I have been trading for just over a year now and have to confess I have tried the in play after a trade has gone wrong in the early days several times and i think i got away with it maybe twice out of 6 or 7 times the last one cost me over half the bank.

I now can make around 15 pounds per day from a 300.00 bank so not planning retiring just yet. I would say lower your stakes setup a simple excel sheet so you can see your strike rate and average win and loss. If your average win is for example £4.00 then obviously if you are letting your losses go to £20.00 plus that's a lot of trading to get back on an even keel not to mention the anxiety. Cut it out at least £8.00 except the small loss and move on in trading remember you will LOSE some.

I'll bet (No pun intended) if you look at some daily records from an excel sheet as described above you will wonder what the hell was I doing with that kind of money its not till its in black and white in front of you do you realise I'm a trading god or not as good as I thought.

Good Luck

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luckytrader
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Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2019 11:07 pm

Mon Mar 04, 2019 12:21 pm

thanks lads for all the advice am not going to jump back in the deep end yet.its not end of world but i will be going back to practice mode this week . cheers for the advice .

firlandsfarm
Posts: 330
Joined: Sat May 03, 2014 8:20 am

Mon Mar 04, 2019 12:36 pm

Hi Paul, I don't know if the situation I am going to lay out for you is true or not but it's based on a story I head of a guy who started with £100 and traded himself into a full time job! But it could be true. Whichever, it is a good lesson in trading. As a tactic it makes a lot of sense for someone who could have low levels of discipline (and I've been there!).

Trading is all about using the same money over and over again, you don't need 3 grand not even 1 grand £100 is enough to start trading and make a good profit and in a way that gets you into a habit of not doing what you have just done! And I don't mean limit yourself to £10 or whatever bets. You trade £100 bets, yep … you have £100 in your Betfair account at the start of the day, you don't top it up regardless and you go 'all in' with each trade. As a trader you are not risking £100, you are only risking the price movement on £100. Some positions you will close for £110 and some you will close for £90 and if you do close for £90 then you only trade with the £90 for the next trade. I promise you one thing, it does wonders for your reading of risk and your money management. With that £100 you might take 3 or 4 positions each race and maybe 20 races in a day so you are turning over £6,000 by recycling the same £100 and at any time in the day you know exactly where you are, no totting up … just look at the Betfair balance.

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PDC
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Mon Mar 04, 2019 1:54 pm

It is probably best that this topic/discussion is moved out to its own thread as this isn't really the appropriate thread to have it in. Also you may want to refer back to it in weeks/months/years time and it will have got lost in the fog of time so maybe Admin can split it out to a thread of it own.

It sounds like you are interested in making money, that is the wrong approach at your stage, you should be looking to win not make money. They are very different things.

Had the amount you were looking at losing been 50p would you have gone inplay? I suspect not you would have taken the loss and moved on. You were too scared to lose the amount you would have lost by closing out pre off. That shows you are using stakes that you are not comfortable with. You need to cut the amounts you use massively.

I would suggest using £2 stakes for now and then very slowly increase it. You won't have the fear of losing too much and should then be able to form the habit in time of not going inplay.

There is nothing wrong with trading inplay, but only if it is part of your plan. Not just to try and get yourself out of a hole.

I really dislike the assumption that tends to be prevalent that you will blow a few banks while learning to trade. That is utter rubbish. The only reason (bar a few exceptions out of your control) for losing a bank in a short space of time is lack of discipline. You may lose a bank over an extended period due to your inability to trade. But don't think to yourself that as others have lost/blown banks and say it is part of learning it is acceptable. It isn't, it is just an excuse and makes them feel better about losing a bank. The only reason for losing a bank is yourself.

£50 should be more than enough to learn to trade with, £100 at the most. £1,000 is just a stupid amount to be using, it shows you are more interested in the amounts of money than the act of winning at trading.

Also don't forget that trading isn't for everyone.

This was a very good tweet I saw yesterday:

"If at first you don't succeed, try, try, again. Then quit. There's no use being a damn fool about it." - W.C.Fields.

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eightbo
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Mon Mar 04, 2019 2:00 pm

firlandsfarm wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 12:36 pm
You have £100 in your Betfair account at the start of the day, you don't top it up regardless and you go 'all in' with each trade. As a trader you are not risking £100, you are only risking the price movement on £100. Some positions you will close for £110 and some you will close for £90 and if you do close for £90 then you only trade with the £90 for the next trade. I promise you one thing, it does wonders for your reading of risk and your money management.
If you go all in with your bank on each trade you'll quickly learn about money management alright :D
Even expected drawdown would produce a really high Risk of Ruin %, and that assumes flawless execution

firlandsfarm
Posts: 330
Joined: Sat May 03, 2014 8:20 am

Mon Mar 04, 2019 2:13 pm

eightbo wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 2:00 pm

If you go all in with your bank on each trade you'll quickly learn about money management alright :D
Even expected drawdown would produce a really high Risk of Ruin %, and that assumes flawless execution
Not if trading 'properly'. As I said you are only risking the price fall not your bank … it's the difference between trading and gambling (betting is something different). But if you keep your fingers crossed with mumblings of "I'll give it a chance to come back up" then I agree with you. However there is no reason why you can't use just a portion of your bank per position but there is always the temptation to say "I'll let it ride a little longer to see if it recovers, I can always win it back in the next race"! which rather defeats to object of forcing you to come out of a losing position before losing more! It's just a matter of giving the mind reason to focus.
Last edited by firlandsfarm on Mon Mar 04, 2019 4:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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