New Trader trying to Stop Going In-Play

The sport of kings.
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bennyboy351
Posts: 332
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2014 6:01 pm
Location: West Midlands, England.

invisiblelayer wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 2:47 pm
Wouldn't even bother with putting even a tenner in if mixing boozing and gambling.

Going inplay is just like a position taking gambler chasing a loss, can't face a loss so think f@ck it. Nobody can help with that just yourself.
I find a COUPLE of beers CAN help my decision-making process in a positive way; its the 3rd, 4th and 5th that bugger it all up! 'hic!' :lol:
eightbo
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Location: Malta / Australia

bennyboy351 wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 7:49 pm
invisiblelayer wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 2:47 pm
Wouldn't even bother with putting even a tenner in if mixing boozing and gambling.

Going inplay is just like a position taking gambler chasing a loss, can't face a loss so think f@ck it. Nobody can help with that just yourself.
I find a COUPLE of beers CAN help my decision-making process in a positive way; its the 3rd, 4th and 5th that bugger it all up! 'hic!' :lol:
Reminds me of an old episode of Brainiac Science Abuse where they wanted to know: Does lager make you bad at sports?

From what I remember the guy started dishing up on the pool table after a couple of pints and then gradually declined from there.

That show was a fantastic balance between learning and entertainment.

They have the Full Episode on YouTube
— — — — — — — — — —
Timestamps:
10:5312:12
25:3527:43
35:2538:38

If you like the show, I noticed they have all the episodes available in HD on their channel.
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firlandsfarm
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eightbo wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 8:45 pm
Reminds me of an old episode of Brainiac Science Abuse where they wanted to know: Does lager make you bad at sports?
I remember a similar one on a News type documentary many years ago at around the time the breathalyser was introduced where they wanted to show the effect of alcohol on your reactions and therefore your ability to drive safely. They put together a few reaction tests from a simple "press the button when the light flashes" to a more sophisticated (for then) fairground type of dummy car seat and controls in front of a large screen of the road where 'something' happened and the trialists had to react in the 'car'. So the experiment started with everyone doing the tests and their reaction times recorded. Then everyone had a drink and they did the tests again and then another drink and repeated the tests (I think 2 drinks was as far as they got but it may have been 3). Anyway the reaction times were faster the more the trialists had to drink! :lol: This gave them a bit of a problem for a live TV experiment so they put it down to familiarity as the tests were retaken. Someone from the audience did ask how you can become more familiar with a light flashing on but they didn't really get an answer to that! :lol:
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firlandsfarm
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LeTiss wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 4:21 pm
I've been there with going IP, many have, as it's been discussed here endlessly. Some have overcome the urge, others haven't. You simply need to find a way QUICKLY, or you'll have no money left to play with
I've done it … and lost it! :oops: But … for every loser there is a winner so … there has to be a way to win in-play or you would have nobody to lose to! :shock: The problem is finding that pot of gold without chasing a rainbow. I trader makes money in 2 types of markets … a trending market and a volatile market and one that can make money in one of those markets may not be able to make money in the other. I think to be successful in the IP markets you need to be very very fast … BOT fast. So you need an algorithm, the problem is discovering that algorithm, I haven't.
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LeTiss
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I didn't say that it wasn't possible to make money IP - I trade IP a lot, but NOT with the level of stakes I use pre-event. The opening post here was about letting a bad trade go IP, because you cannot bring yourself to 'Red Up'. That is something many of us wrestle with, especially those who have gravitated to trading from punting
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firlandsfarm
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LossRecoveryChart.jpg
Yep I know the maths eightbo, I can remember investment funds that fell by 25% one year and rebounded back to the starting value the next which allowed them to advertise a 33% return following a 25% loss so it seemed to make them 8% in profit! But we wouldn't be talking of just one trade so let's look at 10 trades. Let's assume we lose 10% on each of those 10 trades then to recover our fund over the next 10 trades would require a profit of 11.11% on each trade which doesn't look as bad as a 25%/33% comparison. Ahhh, the deceptions of mathematics :)

Actually we wouldn't be looking at 2 trades the same let alone 10 so the future will be unique to everyone. When I started trading it was using the Internet to access Wall Street and in my pre-trading research I was told to expect my trading fund to fall by US$20,000 but not to look upon that as losing money … that was the investment required to learn to trade in the real world. No matter how many books read and courses attended you cannot simulate the real world, you have to get your hands dirty, find out what works for you and do it. The only thing I can 99.99% guarantee is that you will lose money while you do that.

All I was saying is that is how someone started and learned about money management. It may work for one but not another, only the individual can decide. And it doesn't have to be £100, I'm expecting people to realise that they could use £10 but to force the discipline into them it should be of a level that makes them think "I must not lose all this". And no form of trading is without risk you just have to learn how to manage it and how to deal with it. No different to spending on books, courses, 1:1 mentoring etc.
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stueytrader
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firlandsfarm wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 7:38 am
eightbo wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 8:45 pm
Reminds me of an old episode of Brainiac Science Abuse where they wanted to know: Does lager make you bad at sports?
I remember a similar one on a News type documentary many years ago at around the time the breathalyser was introduced where they wanted to show the effect of alcohol on your reactions and therefore your ability to drive safely. They put together a few reaction tests from a simple "press the button when the light flashes" to a more sophisticated (for then) fairground type of dummy car seat and controls in front of a large screen of the road where 'something' happened and the trialists had to react in the 'car'. So the experiment started with everyone doing the tests and their reaction times recorded. Then everyone had a drink and they did the tests again and then another drink and repeated the tests (I think 2 drinks was as far as they got but it may have been 3). Anyway the reaction times were faster the more the trialists had to drink! :lol: This gave them a bit of a problem for a live TV experiment so they put it down to familiarity as the tests were retaken. Someone from the audience did ask how you can become more familiar with a light flashing on but they didn't really get an answer to that! :lol:
Interesting question is what it does to more 'cognitive' skills such as trading. And, of course, there's also the emotions aspect to consider. Guessing reducing inhibition is a risky area in relation to trading though as a general rule...?
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firlandsfarm
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LeTiss wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:38 am
I didn't say that it wasn't possible to make money IP - I trade IP a lot, but NOT with the level of stakes I use pre-event. The opening post here was about letting a bad trade go IP, because you cannot bring yourself to 'Red Up'. That is something many of us wrestle with, especially those who have gravitated to trading from punting
Agreed LeTiss, sorry if I implied otherwise but I get the feel there is a general shying away from IP trading in the forums. It is a very dangerous area and because of the volatility I suspect the book often goes under-round and then you are competing with the professional BOTs.
trader44
Posts: 236
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2014 1:28 pm

hi lucky trader ..if you keep going in play with no strategy of in play trading or knowledge of the horse you will get eaten alive believe me.i am talking from lots of experience of in play trading ..you have to learn to put the mouse down whether you are green or red as it goes in play but that depends on how strong your habits are and as you have shared already they seem to be quite strong..its incredible the destructive irrational behaviour we can engage in when trading it can undo weeks of steady trading in one go i really think people underestimate how disciplined you have to be to be able to trade and make a consistent long term income you can rely on .. :oops:
trader44
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also your username " luckytrader " amused me :lol:
luckytrader
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Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2019 11:07 pm

I will never quit or go back to my day job when i started i put away 6 month of money to pay rent bills i am doing ok i know i can be good at this my problem is getting shot of the gambler in me . all week i have being in practice mode working with just a 200 bank and i can honestly say i am well in profit. just working with 10.00 quid stakes its hard to make a decent trade . but when i compare it to say peter webb useing 500 stakes i think i am on the right track . horses is not realy my passion but just over the last few month i have learned a lot . i dont look at form just pic a race i like look of and study the graph price over volume and i am starting to understand the markets and how they work . i have taken some big hits but starting out in any new venture you have to put money into it before you get your rewards . i feel more confident laying a horse first then backing it . odd as it seems am enjoying it can not wait to jump out of bed in morning and look at the markets.. :D ..thanks for all the advice but rest assured i am here to stay .
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mcgoo
Posts: 898
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Good luck mate.After years of trying everything..I have pretty much given up and trade what I see. I seem to break even a lot :) I automate for fun.This is a hugely difficult game but is great when you employ a light touch. You won't go in play this way ;)..failing that as people have suggested..use automation to force you out
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LeTiss
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'Redding Up' and moving onto the next market, is one of the hardest things for a trader to overcome, especially if you've been a punter previously, or still are a punter in addition to your trades.

You see, as a punter we are used to getting a run for our money. If you back a horse and he falls at the first, or gets beaten on the run-in, that's disappointing to have lost your bet, but at least you've had a run for your money. If you back Over 2.5 goals and it's still 0-0 at 60 mins, then admittedly it's not looking good, but you're not dead in the water yet - I've known many games go from 0-0 at 60mins to 3+ goals at 90mins

However, to lose money on a horse race, or a football match.......before the event has even started is alien to us punters, we expect a run for our money. Therefore, our gambling instincts take over and we let the trade run, until we've totally done our bollocks. We end up losing £300 because we couldn't accept a £5 loss!

It's pure psychology - you need to drum into yourself, that whilst trading and gambling have crossovers, THEY ARE NOT THE SAME!

When you are trading, you need to have a trading mindset. Just accept that you will lose on some markets, and that means taking the red and moving on, just in the same way that when taking a green, it means you don't care who wins or loses the match/race - the same applies to taking a red

It took an eye-watering loss for me to finally accept this
luckytrader
Posts: 24
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2019 11:07 pm

Being at it since 12 today must of done about 10 races but just working with 10.00 stakes i have managed a profit for the day of 118.00 and i have never once went in play. But lee tiss your have hit the nail on the head thats what i was doing just had a 5.00 0r 10.00 quid loss before off and thought i have 10 other horses running for me and 12 fences to jump . i thought the worst can not possible happen but it did and by not taking the 5.00 loss ended up with 150.00 loss as the horse i layed always won last week i had 3 in a row i layed and all them won . cost me all my bank . i used to do spreadbetting but lost more then i won on the you can not beat the spread traders imo. but i have got some confidence back today . was going to get involved with the football but best not get greedy . hope you stay up mate i have enjoyed many a weekend away with the toon few times at the dell and once at the new place . cheers mate that lee tiss always scored goal of the season agains us .
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RoystonVasey
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Great post LeTiss, it really is a battle to get yourself away from the punter mindset but one you have to win.
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