Betfair announce end of trading then delete tweet

[Derek27]

Well, they should by any means be able to place a bet on the sportsbook to cover the liability from the exchange side right?

If by 'they' you mean Betfair, that would be betting against themselves as Betfair is a bookie on the sportsbook.

it's not beyond imagination that there are agnostic bots in the paddy power ecosystem that do a fair bit of mopping up across both entities (exchange and sb). if one were to peddle conspiracy theories, then one could easily see how over activity of these agnostic bots could compromise the stability of the system being leeched!!

It's not beyond imagination but I think it's way beyond likelihood that a few bots among thousands could bring down the exchange.

[NickH]

Well, they should by any means be able to place a bet on the sportsbook to cover the liability from the exchange side right?

If by 'they' you mean Betfair, that would be betting against themselves as Betfair is a bookie on the sportsbook.

it's not beyond imagination that there are agnostic bots in the paddy power ecosystem that do a fair bit of mopping up across both entities (exchange and sb). if one were to peddle conspiracy theories, then one could easily see how over activity of these agnostic bots could compromise the stability of the system being leeched!!

Why wouldn't they have bots that hedge liability on the sportsbook on the exchange?

If they would place a bet on the sportsbook from their side after me requesting to hedge it (not with my own funds) the risk would be for them that my 'failed trade' wouldn't win and the sportsbook had to pay out. But theoretically they should be able to hedge your position right with their funds?

[napshnap]

Well, they should by any means be able to place a bet on the sportsbook to cover the liability from the exchange side right?

If by 'they' you mean Betfair, that would be betting against themselves as Betfair is a bookie on the sportsbook.

it's not beyond imagination that there are agnostic bots in the paddy power ecosystem that do a fair bit of mopping up across both entities (exchange and sb). if one were to peddle conspiracy theories, then one could easily see how over activity of these agnostic bots could compromise the stability of the system being leeched!!

It wouldn't hurt much to have some independent regulator to watch out for bf's "black box".

[jimibt]

If by 'they' you mean Betfair, that would be betting against themselves as Betfair is a bookie on the sportsbook.

it's not beyond imagination that there are agnostic bots in the paddy power ecosystem that do a fair bit of mopping up across both entities (exchange and sb). if one were to peddle conspiracy theories, then one could easily see how over activity of these agnostic bots could compromise the stability of the system being leeched!!

It wouldn't hurt much to have some independent regulator to watch out for bf's "black box".

that was more what my tongue in cheek comment was implying. it would be ever so easy to (ab)use an ecosystem that you had direct access across; the equivallent of having a watercooler discussion that only the participants were privvy to

[Derek27]

Sorry jimibt, I've only just woken up.

[spreadbetting]

Well, once I asked them for possible next steps for me as I don't agree with their argumentation (and the 6 point in their terms and conditions), they answered with the following:

Should you wish to take this further then the next step in this case would be to contact IBAS who are an independent adjudicator and they would be able to look into your claim. However, if you do wish to take this to IBAS then please inform us first as we would need to provide you with a reference number that you would need to provide them to open your case.

I just think they did not expect me to keep on going looking at their response for a reference number..

That's usually the case with any dispute you take to the regulators, you have to show you've basically exhausted the company's internal resolution policy before the regulator will consider looking at it. Depending on the amounts involved you may find BEtfair simply offer you a goodwill gesture in the hope you don't take it to the regulator. Every dispute going to the regulator costs them money , not sure how much but if you consider a claim to the banking ombudsman costs the banks £300 you can see why they settle small claims with goodwill. The registration for IBAS is also banded by how many IBAS claims they oversea so the more claims going to IBAS the worse it looks on their stats and the more they have to pay in registration fees.

Stand your ground if you think you're in with a chance but also remember IBAS have always been known to side with their paymasters unless it's glaringly obvious they shouldn't. So if the goodwill gesture they'll offer is near enough don't simply take it to IBAS out of spite as you may well end up with nothing.

[NickH]

Well, once I asked them for possible next steps for me as I don't agree with their argumentation (and the 6 point in their terms and conditions), they answered with the following:

Should you wish to take this further then the next step in this case would be to contact IBAS who are an independent adjudicator and they would be able to look into your claim. However, if you do wish to take this to IBAS then please inform us first as we would need to provide you with a reference number that you would need to provide them to open your case.

I just think they did not expect me to keep on going looking at their response for a reference number..

That's usually the case with any dispute you take to the regulators, you have to show you've basically exhausted the company's internal resolution policy before the regulator will consider looking at it. Depending on the amounts involved you may find BEtfair simply offer you a goodwill gesture in the hope you don't take it to the regulator. Every dispute going to the regulator costs them money , not sure how much but if you consider a claim to the banking ombudsman costs the banks £300 you can see why they settle small claims with goodwill. The registration for IBAS is also banded by how many IBAS claims they oversea so the more claims going to IBAS the worse it looks on their stats and the more they have to pay in registration fees.

Stand your ground if you think you're in with a chance but also remember IBAS have always been known to side with their paymasters unless it's glaringly obvious they shouldn't. So if the goodwill gesture they'll offer is near enough don't simply take it to IBAS out of spite as you may well end up with nothing.

I understand, but currently the goodwill gesture they are offering me is 0.. so yes.. and aside from the fact that their argument that this was a situation outside their control wont hold in my opinion, they also state the following in their terms and conditions:

Cancellation, Termination, Suspension and Breach
We may restrict your access to Betfair, suspend or terminate your account, withdraw your offers for bets, void any bets outstanding to your account, cancel any unmatched bets or cancel and void any outstanding or matched bets in our absolute discretion without cause at any time including if:

- there is a technological failure;

So with no compensation offered, I won't be unwilling to go the extra mile.

[spreadbetting]

Good luck with it, the further up the ladder you go the more likely you come across someone with clout and common sense to settle it.

The customer services guys have no sway when it comes to offering compensation and I know quite a few of us have had to plug away for some time until we've had fair settlements so it's certainly not a lost cause,just remember to ensure all correspondence is professional no matter how frustrating it may get.

[greenmark]

My twopenneth.
Offshoring IT is often a response to deciding a system is legacy and needs to be managed out.
Reduce costs in line with reducing revenue.
Moving from Ireland to Romania may not be that. But maybe it is.
Regarding going to IBAS after deadlocking with BF's internal dispute process.
Well, have you really got the energy to do that? Go look at the consumer advice on IBAS's website. It doesn't look very welcoming to me.

[Derek27]

Go look at the consumer advice on IBAS's website. It doesn't look very welcoming to me.

In fairness, IBAS probably get quite a few cases from angry threatening punters who expect their money back because their selection refused to race. As long as you have a case and present it politely you should get a fair hearing.

[NickH]

Good luck with it, the further up the ladder you go the more likely you come across someone with clout and common sense to settle it.

The customer services guys have no sway when it comes to offering compensation and I know quite a few of us have had to plug away for some time until we've had fair settlements so it's certainly not a lost cause,just remember to ensure all correspondence is professional no matter how frustrating it may get.

Fully agree, I am in it for a fair settlement and agree with the professional side. No need to hurry or be irritated against them, as long as they make a decent effort

[spreadbetting]

To give Betfair their dues, once you get through to someone with the authority to pay out they've always treated me fairly, even if it has taken a couple of weeks to get there at times.

[NickH]

So I just wanted to inform you regarding the outcome. They (escalation management team) decided there was nothing they were going to do and provided me with a reference number to go to IBAS and their argumentation to not compensate me in any way. I decided to give them a call and explain the situation once more, and that based on their offer (none) I would have no reason not to go to IBAS and that I would feel sorry if I had to do so. They understood, ran an account review and offered me a 200eu goodwill gesture for the sportsbook, which I have accepted. After all, I was not in it for getting all the money back, but more frustrated by the fact that only a trader would be the losing side here without any compensation from their side.

What I have learned is that Betfair will not take any accountability for their software

[Derek27]

Well done Nick, don't know what your losses were but €200 sounds a good result in the circumstances, well worth the persistence.

[NickH]

Well done Nick, don't know what your losses were but €200 sounds a good result in the circumstances, well worth the persistence.

They do not cover it (1200), but I think it is a nice gesture. Had to jump some hoopes, but eventually we got there...