Trading Horse racing : Aussie racing pics

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Heisenberg
Posts: 61
Joined: Mon May 25, 2020 5:28 am

Mon Aug 24, 2020 3:07 pm

spreadbetting wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 2:16 pm
How big a delay is it with readily available pics? I switched my bots off for the Aus racing markets as I just seem to get picked off on my out of line prices and the rest left alone.
Readily available from home - Sky via Foxtel which is almost exactly 5 seconds behind live. Sky at a TAB venue via the commercial feed is about 4 seconds behind live.

Have done some rudimentary calculations (albeit I'm pretty confident in them) based on price movements at the end of races. Allowing for reaction time etc, someone has a feed around 0.5-0.7 seconds behind live (obscure country tracks add another 0.1 to 0.2 seconds as they are delivered by satellite most times). Tracksiders are present at some tracks, but it's happening at literally every track now including those with covid restrictions and tracks that are in the middle of nowhere and have 1 meeting a year so the bulk of it is the fast feed player/s.

The only protocols that allow for such low latency are direct terrestrial IPTV feeds and first hop satellite feeds, it's clearly Tabcorp. I think you've made a wise choice pulling your bots from AU in-play markets, I've all but retired from them too. This will ultimately kill our in-play markets, there has already been a significant drop in liquidity and I can't see that ever being turned around now.

The cynical part of me wonders whether BF finally being granted access to a faster feed was contingent on allowing Tabcorp to trade on BF. I can't imagine that being the case but the timelines match up.

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Heisenberg
Posts: 61
Joined: Mon May 25, 2020 5:28 am

Mon Aug 24, 2020 3:24 pm

I'll add that whoever has the fast pics doesn't seem to do much, if any pre-race research. Favourites that are expected to settle last will inevitably trade higher than BSP despite settling exactly where expected.

On that basis, there will be some value still to be found, although the market is very thin with big spreads (and no liquidity). My advice, not that it was asked for lol, would be to restrict your in-play stuff to sprints and middle distance races with an entry time of maybe 10-15 seconds after the jump when the field has gone at least 200m or so and the slow and fast starters have been identified and get out of the market before they hit the turn, maybe at around the 600m marker (so 35 seconds give or take before the expected finishing time if automated).

The fast pics player/s will have significantly less of an advantage during this time as generally not a lot happens. I'd avoid staying races because mid race moves are far more common etc.

spreadbetting
Posts: 2936
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:06 pm

Mon Aug 24, 2020 3:47 pm

I've noticed quite a few even money shots returning BSP's in double figures so someone's picking off orders before the market goes in play for the poor starters. It's just not worth the risk of botting close to the off and in running is a write with liquidity having dropped too.

Guess we'll just have to hope it's down to covid for now and things will eventually return to some kind of reliable suspensions/feeds. Even in the UK Betfair were turning inplay off their own feed a few weeks back and that was way behind the racing TV feed :)

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Heisenberg
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Joined: Mon May 25, 2020 5:28 am

Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:04 am

Just an update, I was fortunate enough to view what I suspect is the same feed Betfair is using for a couple of days ( unfortunately I have no chance of having access myself! It was a strictly one off thing).

Anyway the latency was comparable to the old Measat feed (2 seconds give or take) and I was still getting beaten into the market quite easily. Every single race, doesn't matter if was the most remote corner of the country or somewhere with covid restrictions, I wasn't quick enough even with this feed.

So on this basis I've given up on in-play trading, also did 3 days tracksiding and even that was hard work. The advantage of remote viewing (more stable connection etc) pretty much overrode the advantage of viewing in real time it would seem. There were a couple of other tracksiders but can't see them lasting too much longer with whoever is getting these pics.

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Heisenberg
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Joined: Mon May 25, 2020 5:28 am

Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:07 am

Also I've noticed my home Foxtel feed (satellite) has improved significantly. Bang on 3.5 seconds behind live, doesn't help much obviously but something has changed as it was just over 5 seconds not long ago.

Wildly
Posts: 187
Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:31 am

Fri Sep 18, 2020 5:26 am

Heisenberg wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:07 am
Also I've noticed my home Foxtel feed (satellite) has improved significantly. Bang on 3.5 seconds behind live, doesn't help much obviously but something has changed as it was just over 5 seconds not long ago.
Heisenberg,
What reference do you use for live time to measure your delay ?
If I use as start time the 'betting closed' time from tabtouch.com.au then my Foxtel cable in suburban Melbourne is 3 to 4 seconds behind live.

Results from an in-play automation I've been using since February took a severe downturn in early July which equates to what you've been saying. I exit before the race result is known.

My strategy has turned profitable again the past 4 weeks. I've eliminated some tracks that were costing me. The end of the less competitive and easier to read in the run winter racing would be factors also.

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Heisenberg
Posts: 61
Joined: Mon May 25, 2020 5:28 am

Fri Sep 18, 2020 9:14 am

Wildly wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 5:26 am
Heisenberg wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:07 am
Also I've noticed my home Foxtel feed (satellite) has improved significantly. Bang on 3.5 seconds behind live, doesn't help much obviously but something has changed as it was just over 5 seconds not long ago.
Heisenberg,
What reference do you use for live time to measure your delay ?
If I use as start time the 'betting closed' time from tabtouch.com.au then my Foxtel cable in suburban Melbourne is 3 to 4 seconds behind live.

Results from an in-play automation I've been using since February took a severe downturn in early July which equates to what you've been saying. I exit before the race result is known.

My strategy has turned profitable again the past 4 weeks. I've eliminated some tracks that were costing me. The end of the less competitive and easier to read in the run winter racing would be factors also.
Wildly, I use the TabTouch times in combination with manual timing between the audio on AM radio and the Foxtel feed. It's never going to be exact to 1/100th of a second, but I'm very confident it's within a tenth either side of 3.5 seconds.

Looking at it logically, Betfair have been chasing a fast feed from Tabcorp for years (lots of bad blood between the 2), they finally get it and literally overnight the in-play markets are getting pillaged. There were already people on low latency feeds before Betfair got their hands on it so it's not a case of others also getting the 'Betfair' feed. It seems extremely likely (being a little circumspect) that there has been some Quid Pro Quo between the 2 entities (ie. Tabcorp allow them use of their IP and Betfair permit them to trade on the exchange, something that I imagine was not permitted previously). Whatever the case, it has screwed in-play betting.

The dog of ry
Posts: 228
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2014 2:17 am

Fri Sep 18, 2020 9:55 am

Heisenberg wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:04 am
Just an update, I was fortunate enough to view what I suspect is the same feed Betfair is using for a couple of days ( unfortunately I have no chance of having access myself! It was a strictly one off thing).
Was it an IP feed? ... Lean times here too unfortunately, feeling very slow

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Heisenberg
Posts: 61
Joined: Mon May 25, 2020 5:28 am

Fri Sep 18, 2020 1:31 pm

The dog of ry wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 9:55 am
Heisenberg wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:04 am
Just an update, I was fortunate enough to view what I suspect is the same feed Betfair is using for a couple of days ( unfortunately I have no chance of having access myself! It was a strictly one off thing).
Was it an IP feed? ... Lean times here too unfortunately, feeling very slow
Yes IP feed. Was a syndicate that sadly I'm not a part of so I have no idea where they've acquired it 😔 As I understand they don't use it for BF, only for Citi.

Aarondewit
Posts: 299
Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2015 12:54 pm

Sat Sep 19, 2020 4:29 am

Man, they are sharp today. Soon as they jump the odds of the leader plunges.

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