APPG report recommends UK ban on 'in-play' betting

[Trader Pat]

Indeed. This is to stop those many young feckless fools on benefits from going into the nearest bookies and spending their rent and food money for the week, in a matter of minutes on those infernal FOBT terminals that have caused so much strife and not a few suicides. I've heard them described as crack for gamblers. As someone who spent far more of his first few pay packets (in the days it was a brown envelope and a hand-written payslip) at the arcade opposite his office, that was healthy, I have some sympathy with reducing the maximum stakes on those things.
CS

For me they should be banned, they only exist to draw in vulnerable people. I don't think reducing maximum stakes goes far enough.

[Derek27]

Can't see the difference between pre and in-play betting - it works the same. I wonder if that includes tennis and football?

Do those wallies know anything about trading? They're suggesting all gambling deposits are processed through a single third-party fund and limited to your disposable income. That would put an end to arbing!

It does not; for football. It works the same for people, who know what they're doing, who stick to the main markets, and who know how to spot the bookie's overall payout structure, sure. For problem gamblers, not so much. Bookies run horrendous payout, especially on markets that target problem gamblers. I mean who the feck bets on which team gets the next throw-in, or which body part the next goal is scored with? Why are these markets available? Which is obviously a rhetorical question.

Hopefully, any legislation would focus on those in-play markets, which are 99% random chance, and on forcing the bookies to have the same overall payout on all markets (pre and in-play) as they do on, say match odds pre. Or at least within a reasonable range of it. That would be very welcome, and needed, imho.

Sorry, I meant the mechanics of placing a bet works the same, whether it's pre-start or in-play. From the document that jameegray1 posted, one of their recommendations is: Restricting in-play sports betting to venues or via the telephone, to bring it in line with regulation in Australia.

That sounds to me like all sports, bookies and exchanges. In fact, I understand from Aussies on this forum that Betfair can't accept in-play bets in Australia from Australian accounts. It looks like that's what they want over here!

[iDooze]

Can't see the difference between pre and in-play betting - it works the same. I wonder if that includes tennis and football?

Do those wallies know anything about trading? They're suggesting all gambling deposits are processed through a single third-party fund and limited to your disposable income. That would put an end to arbing!

It does not; for football. It works the same for people, who know what they're doing, who stick to the main markets, and who know how to spot the bookie's overall payout structure, sure. For problem gamblers, not so much. Bookies run horrendous payout, especially on markets that target problem gamblers. I mean who the feck bets on which team gets the next throw-in, or which body part the next goal is scored with? Why are these markets available? Which is obviously a rhetorical question.

Hopefully, any legislation would focus on those in-play markets, which are 99% random chance, and on forcing the bookies to have the same overall payout on all markets (pre and in-play) as they do on, say match odds pre. Or at least within a reasonable range of it. That would be very welcome, and needed, imho.

Sorry, I meant the mechanics of placing a bet works the same, whether it's pre-start or in-play. From the document that jameegray1 posted, one of their recommendations is: Restricting in-play sports betting to venues or via the telephone, to bring it in line with regulation in Australia.

That sounds to me like all sports, bookies and exchanges. In fact, I understand from Aussies on this forum that Betfair can't accept in-play bets in Australia from Australian accounts. It looks like that's what they want over here!

You're unable to place in-play bets in Australia for all sports other than the horse racing (they are allowed for Aussies). So in the UK - if they look to set a similar in-play ban, horse racing in-play markets may be exempt.

[Cards37]

Sorry, I meant the mechanics of placing a bet works the same, whether it's pre-start or in-play. From the document that jameegray1 posted, one of their recommendations is: Restricting in-play sports betting to venues or via the telephone, to bring it in line with regulation in Australia.

That sounds to me like all sports, bookies and exchanges. In fact, I understand from Aussies on this forum that Betfair can't accept in-play bets in Australia from Australian accounts. It looks like that's what they want over here!

That is indeed the situation here, except for horse racing which we can go in-play.

What frustrates me the most in regard to gambling regulation (in Australia) is that it is almost always the potentially profitable avenues they block. Online poker - illegal. In-play sport betting - illegal. But you can pour as much money as you like into pre-match betting with horrible overrounds, or even worse slot machines which are programmed to only pay 90%!

[Derek27]

Thanks for the info guys, and welcome back Cards37.

Any idea why horse racing's an exception?

[alexmr2]

I really hope pointless pet projects like this don't get accepted. In the current climate it would be stupid for the government to reduce their revenue from the gambling industry by applying more laws like this.

If inplay betting is banned what does that mean in terms of getting out of a position when you miss take SP? I can't remember if it was either the dogs or Aus racing I once got caught out stuck in a position (can't remember if I had my closing stake in with take SP or not).

I'm surprised that the online casino games haven't had the same £2 stake limit applied (some let you bet up to £500 per spin). I would say that someone who can't control their urges is more likely to go overboard on those types of games when alone at home. I've never been a "gambler" but when doing the advantage play signup offers, I could see how these games are far more addictive and dangerous than any other type of betting.

[Euler]

I read the report when it came out, this is how a lot of legislation starts. They go for the extreme and then make compromises on its route through parliament.

On the face of it, it's too broad and it's an anti-gambling crusade.

But that isn't differentiating between types. Some crappy bingo game, or virtual sport serves no purpose other than separating the guidable from their money. At least sport has an element of skill or entertainment about it.

You do feel the industry has shot itself in the foot. I mean look at Betfair, best innovation since gambling was invented and yet the industry has tried its hardest to bury it. Anybody using an exchange would be losing much less than anywhere else, but it's not exactly front and centre is it?

Also Betfair added a sportsbook that wasn't linked to the exchange and I'm constantly being offered crappy arcade and casino offers. Just let the exchange be the exchange and be done with all the other garbage.

[Cards37]

Also Betfair added a sportsbook that wasn't linked to the exchange and I'm constantly being offered crappy arcade and casino offers. Just let the exchange be the exchange and be done with all the other garbage.

I'm intrigued by this. Couldn't agree more on the last sentence. Why did they dilute their product with a sportsbook though? Raw greed? We can't access it here so for Aussies at least the exchange is the exchange and no extra garbage. But then we can't use it to its full extent. Imagine if they only allowed trading on the stock exchange overnight outside of business hours when it isn't "in-play".

[Cards37]

Thanks for the info guys, and welcome back Cards37.

Any idea why horse racing's an exception?

Thanks Derek!

[Euler]

Why did they dilute their product with a sportsbook though? Raw greed?

I remember getting a phone call from them about it.

They, quite correctly, said that the exchange was too complex for ordinary punters so they wanted to put a front end on it. It was carefully explained to me back then that this was fully linked to the exchange and merely a portal to it. Which was fine, that sounded like a great idea. We all expressed our concern as to whether it would end up more than that.

They offered price rush so orders would get pushed to the exchange but that was quietly removed and then the cash out functionality which was linked to the exchange was also dropped.

The Breon came in as CEO and almost turned Betfair into a full-on sportsbook. Once he got his bonus of many tens of millions he buggered off and let somebody else clear up the mess.

[Naffman]

The Betfair brand has got no growth, that's why they're busy buying other companies to keep that share price rocketing

[Cards37]

Why did they dilute their product with a sportsbook though? Raw greed?

I remember getting a phone call from them about it.

They, quite correctly, said that the exchange was too complex for ordinary punters so they wanted to put a front end on it. It was carefully explained to me back then that this was fully linked to the exchange and merely a portal to it. Which was fine, that sounded like a great idea. We all expressed our concern as to whether it would end up more than that.

They offered price rush so orders would get pushed to the exchange but that was quietly removed and then the cash out functionality which was linked to the exchange was also dropped.

The Breon came in as CEO and almost turned Betfair into a full-on sportsbook. Once he got his bonus of many tens of millions he buggered off and let somebody else clear up the mess.

Intriguing.

Never ceases to amaze me how many people can't be bothered to even slightly attempt to understand what's under the hood of gambling.

[ANGELS15]

On the subject of the sportsbook. I use the Betfair exchange app exclusivly. Lately Betfair seem to have 'welded' it to the sportsbook. If you deposit money into the exchange app and then try to page back to the markets you find yourself in the sportsbook app even though you may not have downloaded it. You have to close all the apps on your phone and click on the exchange app again to re-enter exchange wasting valuable time.

What pisses me off every time you try to pick yourself up some shit happens. I was in an 'entertainment' type industry part time job last year. I had been in it 15 years. However the latest boss there was a total arsehole. We were always short staffed and constantly getting bollockings for not being in 3 places at once. I left last summer. I also had some self employed work, plus I do a fair amount of 'in-play' trading fairly succesfully on Betfair. I figured I'd get by. The betfair trading was just starting to pick up around febuary/march when the pandemic happened!

Now racing has resumed I'm getting back on track. I just hope this latest restriction never happens.

[ANGELS15]

I forgot to mention what made things worse re the work is that having left the work so long ago I don't qualify for the furlough. Also I didn't qualify for the self empyment grant either as over the last 3 years my profit from the self employment has been less than 50% of my total income, hence I was really hoping to get by exchange trading back on track.

[gstar1975]

I read the report when it came out, this is how a lot of legislation starts. They go for the extreme and then make compromises on its route through parliament.

On the face of it, it's too broad and it's an anti-gambling crusade.

But that isn't differentiating between types. Some crappy bingo game, or virtual sport serves no purpose other than separating the guidable from their money. At least sport has an element of skill or entertainment about it.

You do feel the industry has shot itself in the foot. I mean look at Betfair, best innovation since gambling was invented and yet the industry has tried its hardest to bury it. Anybody using an exchange would be losing much less than anywhere else, but it's not exactly front and centre is it?

Also Betfair added a sportsbook that wasn't linked to the exchange and I'm constantly being offered crappy arcade and casino offers. Just let the exchange be the exchange and be done with all the other garbage.

Have you ever thought of opening up your own Betangel Bookmakers? My Uncle had 2 in Birmingham during the 1990's if you want any advice. He's retired now but has been using the Betfair Exchange since 2000