Trading Horse racing : Trading What I see !?

The sport of kings.
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goat68
Posts: 154
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:53 pm

Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:53 am

smallplayer wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:08 pm
alexmr2 wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:41 pm
Kai wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:54 am
For what it's worth back in 2014 (my first year) I needed 3000+ markets worth of experience to even start profiting, with a mix of football and racing.
It would be interesting to hear how many markets it usually takes manual pre-off traders, it is something that I rarely see discussed but seem to remember a poll on here where the majority had voted it took 10,000+ markets. From the very little profitable traders I have heard of they said it took them around 2-3 years.

I have traded around 10,000 races over the last 2 years (almost every day) and I still struggle to breakeven at the end of the week, even for me to get to lifetime breakeven would take a very long time. Mostly it is emotions holding me back after something goes wrong I can lose a few days profit from the classic mistakes of overstaking and chasing losses.

I also often wonder if nowadays it is harder to make it in pre-off because there are more traders with more experience (and more bots). I also have heard that post-covid markets without the spectators etc. are worse than usual but I'm not sure if that means harder to read or just lower liquidity?
I'm guessing that if most traders actually knew how long it was gonna take at the start, then a lot of them would have thought, "nah, stuff that" :D
Btw, I am 8.5k races in and 71 weeks spent and I am just at small consistent profit stage. I cannot scale up much it seems for fear of implosion
Also, I see no difference in pre and post covid tbh
Just to set everyone's expectations, if around Xmas time I don't seem to have made at least some identifiable progress for me, then I will throw in the towel at that point, as I've got better things to do if this is never going to work out for me. So that's around 2,000 markets probably.
I know some of you will say 2,000 is not enough, well then so be it, it's definitely not worth the return of investment in what would be at least 2-3 years of torture!!!

auto-matt
Posts: 112
Joined: Sun Jul 07, 2019 4:58 pm

Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:14 am

Goat do you record your days trading?

Anbell
Posts: 620
Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2019 2:31 am

Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:30 am

goat68 wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:53 am
Just to set everyone's expectations, if around Xmas time I don't seem to have made at least some identifiable progress for me, then I will throw in the towel at that point, as I've got better things to do if this is never going to work out for me. So that's around 2,000 markets probably.
I know some of you will say 2,000 is not enough, well then so be it, it's definitely not worth the return of investment in what would be at least 2-3 years of torture!!!
Have you defined " some identifiable progress"?

This forum will be much poorer without all the advice you've been given. :)

goat68
Posts: 154
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:53 pm

Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:44 am

Anbell wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:30 am
goat68 wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:53 am
Just to set everyone's expectations, if around Xmas time I don't seem to have made at least some identifiable progress for me, then I will throw in the towel at that point, as I've got better things to do if this is never going to work out for me. So that's around 2,000 markets probably.
I know some of you will say 2,000 is not enough, well then so be it, it's definitely not worth the return of investment in what would be at least 2-3 years of torture!!!
Have you defined " some identifiable progress"?

This forum will be much poorer without all the advice you've been given. :)
So yes, a variety of things, but as ever with this game, it's a bit subjective! :
- Hopefully seeing more positive expectancy results from my methods
- A real feeling I am starting to be able to read what is happening, and not what I want to happen

At the moment I am sort of trading with a gut feeling of what I think is about to happen based on experience, and at the same time reduce losses
I'm not sure my 'gut' is making the right decisions at the moment 😂

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Kai
Posts: 1880
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:21 pm
Location: Croatia
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Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:54 am

goat68 wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:53 am
Just to set everyone's expectations, if around Xmas time I don't seem to have made at least some identifiable progress for me, then I will throw in the towel at that point, as I've got better things to do if this is never going to work out for me. So that's around 2,000 markets probably.
I know some of you will say 2,000 is not enough, well then so be it, it's definitely not worth the return of investment in what would be at least 2-3 years of torture!!!
A bit early to go down that rabbit hole I think.

Doesn't a college degree on average take 6 years for people? For an average paying job? And people still go for it.

Since trading is potentially one of the higher paying jobs, if not one of the highest, you could make an argument that investing a couple of years in it would be considered a relatively cheap investment. And yet people treat it as a little casual hobby on the side and expect insta-success because they're used to instant gratification.

But traditional education can't and won't really help you with that, since it doesn't teach you how to assess risk in general and manage your money properly, so teachers can't teach you how to be successful because they're not successful themselves, they're just the spokesperson for the traditional education system and only teaching you the basics so that you can serve the society better.

You have to seek out alternative education, and the curriculum is what you make of it, you have to practically create your own since what's out there is not enough.

I may troll around on the forum out of boredom or fun, but I take my trading seriously. If you're passionate enough about trading and want to build your life around it, then it should only be a matter of time.

goat68
Posts: 154
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:53 pm

Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:10 am

Kai wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:54 am
goat68 wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:53 am
Just to set everyone's expectations, if around Xmas time I don't seem to have made at least some identifiable progress for me, then I will throw in the towel at that point, as I've got better things to do if this is never going to work out for me. So that's around 2,000 markets probably.
I know some of you will say 2,000 is not enough, well then so be it, it's definitely not worth the return of investment in what would be at least 2-3 years of torture!!!
A bit early to go down that rabbit hole I think.

Doesn't a college degree on average take 6 years for people? For an average paying job? And people still go for it.

Since trading is potentially one of the higher paying jobs, if not one of the highest, you could make an argument that investing a couple of years in it would be considered a relatively cheap investment. And yet people treat it as a little casual hobby on the side and expect insta-success because they're used to instant gratification.

But traditional education can't and won't really help you with that, since it doesn't teach you how to assess risk in general and manage your money properly, so teachers can't teach you how to be successful because they're not successful themselves, they're just the spokesperson for the traditional education system and only teaching you the basics so that you can serve the society better.

You have to seek out alternative education, and the curriculum is what you make of it, you have to practically create your own since what's out there is not enough.

I may troll around on the forum out of boredom or fun, but I take my trading seriously. If you're passionate enough about trading and want to build your life around it, then it should only be a matter of time.
So a few things:
- I did say if I don't feel like I've made progress, akin to learning something in your first term at college Or not !!
- personal situation comes into it as well, I have a main job in IT, I want to do this as a sideline income. It would never replace my main job income. If my situation won't fit then, unfortunately so be it

User avatar
Naffman
Posts: 4301
Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2013 5:46 am

Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:16 am

goat68 wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:10 am
Kai wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:54 am
goat68 wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:53 am
Just to set everyone's expectations, if around Xmas time I don't seem to have made at least some identifiable progress for me, then I will throw in the towel at that point, as I've got better things to do if this is never going to work out for me. So that's around 2,000 markets probably.
I know some of you will say 2,000 is not enough, well then so be it, it's definitely not worth the return of investment in what would be at least 2-3 years of torture!!!
A bit early to go down that rabbit hole I think.

Doesn't a college degree on average take 6 years for people? For an average paying job? And people still go for it.

Since trading is potentially one of the higher paying jobs, if not one of the highest, you could make an argument that investing a couple of years in it would be considered a relatively cheap investment. And yet people treat it as a little casual hobby on the side and expect insta-success because they're used to instant gratification.

But traditional education can't and won't really help you with that, since it doesn't teach you how to assess risk in general and manage your money properly, so teachers can't teach you how to be successful because they're not successful themselves, they're just the spokesperson for the traditional education system and only teaching you the basics so that you can serve the society better.

You have to seek out alternative education, and the curriculum is what you make of it, you have to practically create your own since what's out there is not enough.

I may troll around on the forum out of boredom or fun, but I take my trading seriously. If you're passionate enough about trading and want to build your life around it, then it should only be a matter of time.
So a few things:
- I did say if I don't feel like I've made progress, akin to learning something in your first term at college Or not !!
- personal situation comes into it as well, I have a main job in IT, I want to do this as a sideline income. It would never replace my main job income. If my situation won't fit then, unfortunately so be it
No offence but it seems like your heart isn't in it - its a non starter if that's the case

goat68
Posts: 154
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:53 pm

Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:29 am

Naffman wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:16 am
goat68 wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:10 am
Kai wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:54 am


A bit early to go down that rabbit hole I think.

Doesn't a college degree on average take 6 years for people? For an average paying job? And people still go for it.

Since trading is potentially one of the higher paying jobs, if not one of the highest, you could make an argument that investing a couple of years in it would be considered a relatively cheap investment. And yet people treat it as a little casual hobby on the side and expect insta-success because they're used to instant gratification.

But traditional education can't and won't really help you with that, since it doesn't teach you how to assess risk in general and manage your money properly, so teachers can't teach you how to be successful because they're not successful themselves, they're just the spokesperson for the traditional education system and only teaching you the basics so that you can serve the society better.

You have to seek out alternative education, and the curriculum is what you make of it, you have to practically create your own since what's out there is not enough.

I may troll around on the forum out of boredom or fun, but I take my trading seriously. If you're passionate enough about trading and want to build your life around it, then it should only be a matter of time.
So a few things:
- I did say if I don't feel like I've made progress, akin to learning something in your first term at college Or not !!
- personal situation comes into it as well, I have a main job in IT, I want to do this as a sideline income. It would never replace my main job income. If my situation won't fit then, unfortunately so be it
No offence but it seems like your heart isn't in it - its a non starter if that's the case
No worries, fair comment.
As I've always indicated I only want to be honest, for the moment I am pushing hard forward...I'm reading lots, and watching videos lots.......

goat68
Posts: 154
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:53 pm

Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:32 am

Naffman wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:16 am
goat68 wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:10 am
Kai wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:54 am


A bit early to go down that rabbit hole I think.

Doesn't a college degree on average take 6 years for people? For an average paying job? And people still go for it.

Since trading is potentially one of the higher paying jobs, if not one of the highest, you could make an argument that investing a couple of years in it would be considered a relatively cheap investment. And yet people treat it as a little casual hobby on the side and expect insta-success because they're used to instant gratification.

But traditional education can't and won't really help you with that, since it doesn't teach you how to assess risk in general and manage your money properly, so teachers can't teach you how to be successful because they're not successful themselves, they're just the spokesperson for the traditional education system and only teaching you the basics so that you can serve the society better.

You have to seek out alternative education, and the curriculum is what you make of it, you have to practically create your own since what's out there is not enough.

I may troll around on the forum out of boredom or fun, but I take my trading seriously. If you're passionate enough about trading and want to build your life around it, then it should only be a matter of time.
So a few things:
- I did say if I don't feel like I've made progress, akin to learning something in your first term at college Or not !!
- personal situation comes into it as well, I have a main job in IT, I want to do this as a sideline income. It would never replace my main job income. If my situation won't fit then, unfortunately so be it
No offence but it seems like your heart isn't in it - its a non starter if that's the case
You make an interesting side point though, and that's psychological mindset

auto-matt
Posts: 112
Joined: Sun Jul 07, 2019 4:58 pm

Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:35 am

By putting a number on it doesn’t mean it’s going to magically click once that number has been reached, Trading 2,000 live markets is far less beneficial than trading 1,000 markets that have been recorded and reviewed, you will miss out on so much in real time due to inexperience, quality not quantity

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