Trading What I see !?

[wearthefoxhat]

You probably make that easily in a week nowadays...(automation/semi-automation)

Make what?

Isn't he trading full manual?

I meant you (Kai)

[Kai]

You probably make that easily in a week nowadays...(automation/semi-automation)

Make what?

Isn't he trading full manual?

I meant you (Kai)

Thereabouts maybe I don't mind PMing you my 3 month P&L shortly, but not using any automation yet, my friend is still the guinea pig until I get over my irrational fears about auto

But my point is, I think Mr Goat is doing as well as can be expected at this point, as long as he's collecting valuable market experience and actively working on important aspects of trading (like managing losses) I think he's moving in the right direction.

Imagine if he were to crack it eventually, with the help of the forum, what a triumph that would be, and a lift for everyone, including the lurkers Bet Angel subscriptions would be selling like candy as well, there can never be enough success stories.

[jimibt]

Think the last thing Jimbo wants to be is some kind of Nancy, he'd be chased off the forum.

reminds me of the great episode from 'Allo 'Allo (The Funeral) https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6sg3h6

there is a classic one liner where Rene alludes to a fictional twin brother (to the SS). When asked where he comes from, he says "Nantes, we are both Nantes boys"

lovely play on words -lol

[wearthefoxhat]

Make what?

Isn't he trading full manual?

I meant you (Kai)

Thereabouts maybe I don't mind PMing you my 3 month P&L shortly, but not using any automation yet, my friend is still the guinea pig until I get over my irrational fears about auto

But my point is, I think Mr Goat is doing as well as can be expected at this point, as long as he's collecting valuable market experience and actively working on important aspects of trading (like managing losses) I think he's moving in the right direction.

Imagine if he were to crack it eventually, with the help of the forum, what a triumph that would be, and a lift for everyone, including the lurkers Bet Angel subscriptions would be selling like candy as well, there can never be enough success stories.

Yep, there's an inherent need in all of us to see others succeed/try to succeed and try to help in our own way.

Some of the lurkers will want this too, but maybe have nothing to add, as a lot of ground has already been covered in the thread already. (maybe not the psychopath types)

No need to send any Pnl's by PM, my spidey senses already feel you know the time of day.

[Kai]

Yep, there's an inherent need in all of us to see others succeed/try to succeed and try to help in our own way.

Some of the lurkers will want this too, but maybe have nothing to add, as a lot of ground has already been covered in the thread already. (maybe not the psychopath types)

No need to send any Pnl's by PM, my spidey senses already feel you know the time of day.

No worries, already sent it, included a fresh Psychoff 3month P&L as well just for fun, you may find it a bit more interesting

And yep, we do want Mr Goat to succeed The more the merrier.

[alexmr2]

For what it's worth back in 2014 (my first year) I needed 3000+ markets worth of experience to even start profiting, with a mix of football and racing.

It would be interesting to hear how many markets it usually takes manual pre-off traders, it is something that I rarely see discussed but seem to remember a poll on here where the majority had voted it took 10,000+ markets. From the very little profitable traders I have heard of they said it took them around 2-3 years.

I have traded around 10,000 races over the last 2 years (almost every day) and I still struggle to breakeven at the end of the week, even for me to get to lifetime breakeven would take a very long time. Mostly it is emotions holding me back after something goes wrong I can lose a few days profit from the classic mistakes of overstaking and chasing losses.

I also often wonder if nowadays it is harder to make it in pre-off because there are more traders with more experience (and more bots). I also have heard that post-covid markets without the spectators etc. are worse than usual but I'm not sure if that means harder to read or just lower liquidity?

[goat68]

Im closing in on my first 1,000 markets, getting ready to break out the 'bubbly'

[goat68]

For what it's worth back in 2014 (my first year) I needed 3000+ markets worth of experience to even start profiting, with a mix of football and racing.

It would be interesting to hear how many markets it usually takes manual pre-off traders, it is something that I rarely see discussed but seem to remember a poll on here where the majority had voted it took 10,000+ markets. From the very little profitable traders I have heard of they said it took them around 2-3 years.

I have traded around 10,000 races over the last 2 years (almost every day) and I still struggle to breakeven at the end of the week, even for me to get to lifetime breakeven would take a very long time. Mostly it is emotions holding me back after something goes wrong I can lose a few days profit from the classic mistakes of overstaking and chasing losses.

I also often wonder if nowadays it is harder to make it in pre-off because there are more traders with more experience (and more bots). I also have heard that post-covid markets without the spectators etc. are worse than usual but I'm not sure if that means harder to read or just lower liquidity?

I'll just throw a question out there for the experienced guys, if you've done 10,000 markets but over 10 years (say), then how valid is that if markets change every year or so...?
Surely a market behaviour learned 5+ years ago is no where near as valid as one learned in the last year?

[smallplayer]

For what it's worth back in 2014 (my first year) I needed 3000+ markets worth of experience to even start profiting, with a mix of football and racing.

It would be interesting to hear how many markets it usually takes manual pre-off traders, it is something that I rarely see discussed but seem to remember a poll on here where the majority had voted it took 10,000+ markets. From the very little profitable traders I have heard of they said it took them around 2-3 years.

I have traded around 10,000 races over the last 2 years (almost every day) and I still struggle to breakeven at the end of the week, even for me to get to lifetime breakeven would take a very long time. Mostly it is emotions holding me back after something goes wrong I can lose a few days profit from the classic mistakes of overstaking and chasing losses.

I also often wonder if nowadays it is harder to make it in pre-off because there are more traders with more experience (and more bots). I also have heard that post-covid markets without the spectators etc. are worse than usual but I'm not sure if that means harder to read or just lower liquidity?

I'm guessing that if most traders actually knew how long it was gonna take at the start, then a lot of them would have thought, "nah, stuff that"
Btw, I am 8.5k races in and 71 weeks spent and I am just at small consistent profit stage. I cannot scale up much it seems for fear of implosion
Also, I see no difference in pre and post covid tbh

[Anbell]

I'll just throw a question out there for the experienced guys, if you've done 10,000 markets but over 10 years (say), then how valid is that if markets change every year or so...?
Surely a market behaviour learned 5+ years ago is no where near as valid as one learned in the last year?

The learned behaviour over that time is the appropriate adaptability.

[goat68]

For what it's worth back in 2014 (my first year) I needed 3000+ markets worth of experience to even start profiting, with a mix of football and racing.

It would be interesting to hear how many markets it usually takes manual pre-off traders, it is something that I rarely see discussed but seem to remember a poll on here where the majority had voted it took 10,000+ markets. From the very little profitable traders I have heard of they said it took them around 2-3 years.

I have traded around 10,000 races over the last 2 years (almost every day) and I still struggle to breakeven at the end of the week, even for me to get to lifetime breakeven would take a very long time. Mostly it is emotions holding me back after something goes wrong I can lose a few days profit from the classic mistakes of overstaking and chasing losses.

I also often wonder if nowadays it is harder to make it in pre-off because there are more traders with more experience (and more bots). I also have heard that post-covid markets without the spectators etc. are worse than usual but I'm not sure if that means harder to read or just lower liquidity?

I'm guessing that if most traders actually knew how long it was gonna take at the start, then a lot of them would have thought, "nah, stuff that"
Btw, I am 8.5k races in and 71 weeks spent and I am just at small consistent profit stage. I cannot scale up much it seems for fear of implosion
Also, I see no difference in pre and post covid tbh

Just to set everyone's expectations, if around Xmas time I don't seem to have made at least some identifiable progress for me, then I will throw in the towel at that point, as I've got better things to do if this is never going to work out for me. So that's around 2,000 markets probably.
I know some of you will say 2,000 is not enough, well then so be it, it's definitely not worth the return of investment in what would be at least 2-3 years of torture!!!

[auto-matt]

Goat do you record your days trading?

[Anbell]

Just to set everyone's expectations, if around Xmas time I don't seem to have made at least some identifiable progress for me, then I will throw in the towel at that point, as I've got better things to do if this is never going to work out for me. So that's around 2,000 markets probably.
I know some of you will say 2,000 is not enough, well then so be it, it's definitely not worth the return of investment in what would be at least 2-3 years of torture!!!

Have you defined " some identifiable progress"?

This forum will be much poorer without all the advice you've been given.

[goat68]

Just to set everyone's expectations, if around Xmas time I don't seem to have made at least some identifiable progress for me, then I will throw in the towel at that point, as I've got better things to do if this is never going to work out for me. So that's around 2,000 markets probably.
I know some of you will say 2,000 is not enough, well then so be it, it's definitely not worth the return of investment in what would be at least 2-3 years of torture!!!

Have you defined " some identifiable progress"?

This forum will be much poorer without all the advice you've been given.

So yes, a variety of things, but as ever with this game, it's a bit subjective! :
- Hopefully seeing more positive expectancy results from my methods
- A real feeling I am starting to be able to read what is happening, and not what I want to happen

At the moment I am sort of trading with a gut feeling of what I think is about to happen based on experience, and at the same time reduce losses
I'm not sure my 'gut' is making the right decisions at the moment

[Kai]

Just to set everyone's expectations, if around Xmas time I don't seem to have made at least some identifiable progress for me, then I will throw in the towel at that point, as I've got better things to do if this is never going to work out for me. So that's around 2,000 markets probably.
I know some of you will say 2,000 is not enough, well then so be it, it's definitely not worth the return of investment in what would be at least 2-3 years of torture!!!

A bit early to go down that rabbit hole I think.

Doesn't a college degree on average take 6 years for people? For an average paying job? And people still go for it.

Since trading is potentially one of the higher paying jobs, if not one of the highest, you could make an argument that investing a couple of years in it would be considered a relatively cheap investment. And yet people treat it as a little casual hobby on the side and expect insta-success because they're used to instant gratification.

But traditional education can't and won't really help you with that, since it doesn't teach you how to assess risk in general and manage your money properly, so teachers can't teach you how to be successful because they're not successful themselves, they're just the spokesperson for the traditional education system and only teaching you the basics so that you can serve the society better.

You have to seek out alternative education, and the curriculum is what you make of it, you have to practically create your own since what's out there is not enough.

I may troll around on the forum out of boredom or fun, but I take my trading seriously. If you're passionate enough about trading and want to build your life around it, then it should only be a matter of time.