Betfair chart / Betfair graph of the day

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Derek27
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Derek27
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ShaunWhite
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LinusP wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 2:26 pm
3 decimal points on the graph, has it always been like this on the low faves?
Picking up on the BF charts generally, being event based rather than time based they always look more dramatic than they actually were. Those early spikes often evolve over an hour or two and the smoothing towards the end is often not much more than time dilation.

It might not have been designed that way for but it does make for a small psychological tweak to generate a higher level of 'excitement'. They'd certainly design it that way now, with these things being carfully studied, and is it a coincidence that the price line is red, the trigger colour?

Charts vs Time give a quite different view on things, especially in a nice drab colour :)
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Dallas
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ShaunWhite wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 6:25 pm

Picking up on the BF charts generally, being event based rather than time based they always look more dramatic than they actually were. Those early spikes often evolve over an hour or two and the smoothing towards the end is often not much more than time dilation.
I always discount anything on the left of BF charts until the real money begins hitting the market, it then gives a much better picture.
I was assuming those last two charts from Derek were to show how flat the market was rather than a large had occurred move?
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Korattt
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Dallas wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 6:47 pm
ShaunWhite wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 6:25 pm

Picking up on the BF charts generally, being event based rather than time based they always look more dramatic than they actually were. Those early spikes often evolve over an hour or two and the smoothing towards the end is often not much more than time dilation.
I always discount anything on the left of BF charts until the real money begins hitting the market, it then gives a much better picture.
I was assuming those last two charts from Derek were to show how flat the market was rather than a large had occurred move?
that’s interesting, really interesting 🤔 👍🏻
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ruthlessimon
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Dallas wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 6:47 pm
I always discount anything on the left of BF charts until the real money begins hitting the market
Always or nearly always? ;)

I was thinking Derek was trying to show the overall range (i.e. 12 - 3.0)
LinusP
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ShaunWhite wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 6:25 pm
LinusP wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 2:26 pm
3 decimal points on the graph, has it always been like this on the low faves?
Picking up on the BF charts generally, being event based rather than time based they always look more dramatic than they actually were. Those early spikes often evolve over an hour or two and the smoothing towards the end is often not much more than time dilation.

It might not have been designed that way for but it does make for a small psychological tweak to generate a higher level of 'excitement'. They'd certainly design it that way now, with these things being carfully studied, and is it a coincidence that the price line is red, the trigger colour?

Charts vs Time give a quite different view on things, especially in a nice drab colour :)
Interesting point as Betfair have been developing a graph api endpoint (you can see it being used on the iPhone/iPad apps) that was supposed to be released months ago. I assumed this was to replace the current graphs but who knows.
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ruthlessimon
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Korattt wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 7:11 pm
that’s interesting, really interesting 🤔 👍🏻
It is interesting (r.e. 'Real money' trading only); but also pretty difficult to understand! I currently see it as a "goldilocks variable"

Cause remember: - Too much, & you'll have the wrath of Peter for punting a trend. Too little, & you'll be taking more risk than a skydiver :)
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Derek27
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ShaunWhite wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 6:25 pm
LinusP wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 2:26 pm
3 decimal points on the graph, has it always been like this on the low faves?
Picking up on the BF charts generally, being event based rather than time based they always look more dramatic than they actually were. Those early spikes often evolve over an hour or two and the smoothing towards the end is often not much more than time dilation.

It might not have been designed that way for but it does make for a small psychological tweak to generate a higher level of 'excitement'. They'd certainly design it that way now, with these things being carfully studied, and is it a coincidence that the price line is red, the trigger colour?

Charts vs Time give a quite different view on things, especially in a nice drab colour :)
I usually have all the Betfair graphs visible for the race I'm trading on a second computer, sometimes in full screen. Depending on the number of runners the dimensions of the graphs vary. A graph with a short horizontal in comparison to the vertical looks quite a dramatic steam/drift, whereas a longer horizontal can make it look quite steady. :)
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Derek27
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Dallas wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 6:47 pm
I was assuming those last two charts from Derek were to show how flat the market was rather than a large had occurred move?
I was actually pointing out the full discrepancy in price, just as a matter of interest, though I'm well aware regular traders would not have the opportunity to get on at the bigger price.

As a former small-time gambler who would try to seek value the night before with the odd £10-20, these graphs intrigue me. But from a trading prospective, if people were clueless of the horses chances the night before and traded it at three times the current price, it may indicate volatility/unpredictability in the market. They don't often occur in the bigger races.

If the Betfair graphs had a time-line on the x-axis, I reckon the last ten minutes before the off could take up as much as half the graph.
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Derek27
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Dallas wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 6:47 pm
I always discount anything on the left of BF charts until the real money begins hitting the market, it then gives a much better picture.
That's what I do when trading US and AUS racing, as the early trading is non-existent and meaningless. UK early trading does at least have some relevance because of the extra volume, more punters and more information of the races.
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Dallas
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Derek27 wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:10 pm
Dallas wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 6:47 pm
I was assuming those last two charts from Derek were to show how flat the market was rather than a large had occurred move?
I was actually pointing out the full discrepancy in price, just as a matter of interest, though I'm well aware regular traders would not have the opportunity to get on at the bigger price.

As a former small-time gambler who would try to seek value the night before with the odd £10-20, these graphs intrigue me. But from a trading prospective, if people were clueless of the horses chances the night before and traded it at three times the current price, it may indicate volatility/unpredictability in the market. They don't often occur in the bigger races.

If the Betfair graphs had a time-line on the x-axis, I reckon the last ten minutes before the off could take up as much as half the graph.
If a runner is backed in from a big price with proper money during the live shows (ie, 10s to 3s as in the chart) I would be taking notice and will trade accordingly but when it happens the night before or early morning and there's less than a few hundred quid traded all the way down perhaps at just a handful of price points that's just the market forming and its going to have no bearing on the market in its final minutes.
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Derek27
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Dallas wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:29 pm
Derek27 wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:10 pm
Dallas wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 6:47 pm
I was assuming those last two charts from Derek were to show how flat the market was rather than a large had occurred move?
I was actually pointing out the full discrepancy in price, just as a matter of interest, though I'm well aware regular traders would not have the opportunity to get on at the bigger price.

As a former small-time gambler who would try to seek value the night before with the odd £10-20, these graphs intrigue me. But from a trading prospective, if people were clueless of the horses chances the night before and traded it at three times the current price, it may indicate volatility/unpredictability in the market. They don't often occur in the bigger races.

If the Betfair graphs had a time-line on the x-axis, I reckon the last ten minutes before the off could take up as much as half the graph.
If a runner is backed in from a big price with proper money during the live shows (ie, 10s to 3s as in the chart) I would be taking notice and will trade accordingly but when it happens the night before or early morning and there's less than a few hundred quid traded all the way down perhaps at just a handful of price points that's just the market forming and its going to have no bearing on the market in its final minutes.
It will have no bearing on the market in its final minutes, but if you get involved in markets early looking for longer term trades, it is significant. You sometimes see a horse backed from double figures to a short price and back out to double figures. The last five-minute trader would have missed both moves!
Korattt
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personally, I’ve come to the conclusion that strictly speaking the BF charts don’t really conform to the usual type charts of say a financial instrument offer where one is able to pick out patterns on one particular BF chart to confirm a move,

I think one is better off looking at the charts as a collective then wait for confirmation of what you have in front of you, for every action there’s a reaction an’ all that?
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Naffman
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Charts mean nothing, it's just an easy simple way for people to show the price movements of a particular selection over a period of time.
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