Australian racing

The sport of kings.
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Derek27
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I don't know what's worse, Dominic Cummings or penny shavers. :lol:
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Derek27
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It's gonna be really difficult next week when you're down to your last NSW market trying to keep count of how much you've got left to trade!
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Naffman
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Derek27 wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 6:24 am
It's gonna be really difficult next week when you're down to your last NSW market trying to keep count of how much you've got left to trade!
I won't be touching it, not worth the hassle
Anbell
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Naffman wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 6:36 am
Derek27 wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 6:24 am
It's gonna be really difficult next week when you're down to your last NSW market trying to keep count of how much you've got left to trade!
I won't be touching it, not worth the hassle
It's not *that* difficult. The BF website does it for you each race.
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Derek27
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Anbell wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 7:13 am
Naffman wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 6:36 am
Derek27 wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 6:24 am
It's gonna be really difficult next week when you're down to your last NSW market trying to keep count of how much you've got left to trade!
I won't be touching it, not worth the hassle
It's not *that* difficult. The BF website does it for you each race.
I'm talking about your final race. You'll have to add up each back bet. Getting it wrong and going over the limit can be tremendously costly!
Anbell
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Derek27 wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 7:48 am
I'm talking about your final race. You'll have to add up each back bet. Getting it wrong and going over the limit can be tremendously costly!
The website still has a running total of your Matched bets (if you check Average Odds) - so that doesnt include open bets which you'd need to keep an eye on.

I had assumed that the 2.4% charge was only on incremental $ after the $6000 threshold. THey've updated their page https://www.betfair.com.au/hub/turnover-charge/ but I'm still not clear if you have to pay from the first $, or only after the $6001.

They say both:
b) Matched back bets with an aggregate of AUS $6,000 or greater on turnover charge markets
and
The turnover charge will be 2.4% of the aggregate value of matched back bets on turnover charge markets.
I'll ask my account manager and report back
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Naffman
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Basically £3000 so if you make over £100 you're doing very well, not worth it for all the hassle imo, you go over once and it's a £75 charge.

I think they allow you to lay as much as you want still though so I'll be taking a look at that but doubt it'll be worthwhile either with the comm. rate
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gazuty
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Naffman wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 8:27 am
Basically £3000 so if you make over £100 you're doing very well, not worth it for all the hassle imo, you go over once and it's a £75 charge.
hmmm

£3000 * 2.02 / 1.98 - £3000 = £60
£3000 * 55 / 50 - £3000 = £300

For sort of the bounded limits of what people might indulge. And then 2.4% of £3,000 = £72

I see what you mean about risk and reward.
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Derek27
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Anbell wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 8:10 am
Derek27 wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 7:48 am
I'm talking about your final race. You'll have to add up each back bet. Getting it wrong and going over the limit can be tremendously costly!
The website still has a running total of your Matched bets (if you check Average Odds) - so that doesnt include open bets which you'd need to keep an eye on.

I had assumed that the 2.4% charge was only on incremental $ after the $6000 threshold. THey've updated their page https://www.betfair.com.au/hub/turnover-charge/ but I'm still not clear if you have to pay from the first $, or only after the $6001.

They say both:
b) Matched back bets with an aggregate of AUS $6,000 or greater on turnover charge markets
and
The turnover charge will be 2.4% of the aggregate value of matched back bets on turnover charge markets.
I'll ask my account manager and report back
It would be easier to keep a mental record than to keep looking and refreshing the accounts page.

The rules you've quoted are pretty clear to me. You pay turnover charge from the first dollar. The $6000 is just the trigger figure for working out whether or not you pay it.
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Derek27
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gazuty wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 10:03 am
Naffman wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 8:27 am
Basically £3000 so if you make over £100 you're doing very well, not worth it for all the hassle imo, you go over once and it's a £75 charge.
hmmm

£3000 * 2.02 / 1.98 - £3000 = £60
£3000 * 55 / 50 - £3000 = £300

For sort of the bounded limits of what people might indulge. And then 2.4% of £3,000 = £72

I see what you mean about risk and reward.
You'd be lucky to trade £3K in that region. To be honest, I've never really looked down there but I sometimes find the third or fourth favourites don't trade as well as the favourite and always avoided NSW markets with a fav above 5.0. Looks like I'll be confined to them now. :(
Lutruwita
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Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2015 12:54 pm

https://www.harness.org.au/racing/field ... c=KI270520

Have a look at this harness race @ Kilmore race 4 on Wednesday night. It was a very difficult race to trade in play... All but one horse galloped
Lutruwita
Posts: 544
Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2015 12:54 pm

Casino false start. Will be interesting how Betfair calibrate this. Plenty was matched on the favourite 'Sir Angus' at $50+ who stayed in the stalls. They will surely have to void all those bets.
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Naffman
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South Aussie commission down to 5% now from 6%
eightbo
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Location: Australia / UK

I stopped trading weds session long ago, every now and then my sleeping schedule aligns and I have a go but always end up back at the same conclusion (not worth it) so I'm only trading Sat session each week.

re: New Turnover charge
Sad to see but BF were presumably getting absolutely carted so not completely unreasonable

I'm going to review tomorrow's session to get a feel for how much I'm backing in certain NSW markets.

Given the free 1wk grace period, I'll have a stab at trading the NSWs which I feel are worth it on June 06 and tally them retrospectively using matched bets as Anbell suggested. I'll check exchange rate at session start and take off a small buffer leaving a round number. (Naf's £3000 seems perfect at current rate).
I'll freestyle it til I notice I'm close then for last mkt Derek, I reckon I'll just switch to 'Stake' type staking and use some easy number like £50 or £100 then close the market early when I'm around my number e.g. ~£3000.

Depending on card structure each week the number of NSWs I trade may vary dramatically.

Lastly, I would add that given this change, by mid-June it would be reasonable to expect a drastically lower % of full-time traders in the markets which in-turn should translate as a boost in edge to those who stay around.

Personally I'm keen to give it a good go but if at any point I cock up and use my 1wk grace period, I'll avoid NSWs completely on the basis that I should still be able to allow for a mistakenly traded NSW market each week and not trigger the charge.
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Derek27
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Hi eightbo, welcome back. Are you sure you get a one week grace period? I haven't heard that and wouldn't fancy chancing it.
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