Australian racing

The sport of kings.
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Naffman
Posts: 5626
Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2013 5:46 am

If manually trading these will show the meetings and (state) if unsure - https://www.racenet.com.au/racing-form-guide

I'm surprised they've given you a 3 meeting weekly limit tbh.

Just checked and they have a limit of $2000 in matched bets so that would rule most people out by the 3rd race.
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Derek27
Posts: 23476
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:44 am
Location: UK

Naffman wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:14 pm
If manually trading these will show the meetings and (state) if unsure - https://www.racenet.com.au/racing-form-guide

I'm surprised they've given you a 3 meeting weekly limit tbh.

Just checked and they have a limit of $2000 in matched bets so that would rule most people out by the 3rd race.
You become liable if you've placed back bets on 25 markets or more, total back stake $2000 (£1150 approx) or more, and paid less than 1.5% commission on total back bets, so gamblers just backing would be OK. Didn't realise the back stake limit when I thought I could trade 3 meetings.

Are all NSW courses turnover charge markets and the ones outside non-turnover charge ?
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Naffman
Posts: 5626
Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2013 5:46 am

All NSW horse and harness racing, think greyhound is alright though.

It used to be the majority of Australian states so it's a lot more trader friendly than it used to be.
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Derek27
Posts: 23476
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:44 am
Location: UK

I was just about to cry my eyes out when I realised Randwick is in NSW, but then I looked again at the criteria.

Who will pay the Turnover Charge?

This charge will only apply to customers who during a particular week (Monday to Sunday GMT) meet each of the below criteria:

have matched bets on 25 or more markets on which Betfair is subject to a turnover fee from Racing NSW (“turnover charge markets”);

have matched back bets with an aggregate value of AUS $2,000 or greater on turnover charge markets; and

the total commission generated by the customer on turnover charge markets is less than 1.5% of the aggregate value of matched back bets placed by the customer on those markets.


This means that you can bet as much as you like as long as you stop at 24 markets. :D Go beyond that though, and it could be an expensive mistake.
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Naffman
Posts: 5626
Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2013 5:46 am

Nsw turnover charge splits into 3 turnover charge percentage categories depending on the quality of the meeting 2 - 2.5 - 3% with most meetings at Randwick coming under the 2.5 - 3% bracket (I'd presume).

Good luck trading it but I fear they'll catch you up again even if only trading one meeting and back staking a mere £10K which would calc. to £250-300.

But take them for all they've got :lol:
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Derek27
Posts: 23476
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:44 am
Location: UK

How do Betfair manage to absorb these charges?

If you trade £10k on 24 markets there's no turnover charge. But stake another £2 on a 25th and it's now £120.

Doesn't make much sense.
spreadbetting
Posts: 3140
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:06 pm

The simple fact is Betfair won't absorb them, if you start costing them money they will advise you to no longer bet on turnover charge markets regardless of any 24 market rule. There was a thread a while back where they basically told someone to stop. I'd guess if you're in a PC2 bracket they may well let you do the 24 as you'd be considered a decent earner for them for comms elsewhere.
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Derek27
Posts: 23476
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Location: UK

Thanks for that info. I suppose you can't really upset an organization that holds your funds and takes some of it whenever they feel like. :evil:
Dipstick
Posts: 116
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2015 10:08 pm

One for Spreadbetting. You said above :

"Just avoid the turnover charge courses there are plenty of them, I've a list my bot uses if you need the courses"

Would be really helpful to have that list if you've got it. I looked at the Racenet link provided and it is a very long list - didn't realise aus had so many courses !
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gazuty
Posts: 2547
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2011 11:03 am
Location: Green land :)

spreadbetting wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:27 pm
The simple fact is Betfair won't absorb them, if you start costing them money they will advise you to no longer bet on turnover charge markets regardless of any 24 market rule. There was a thread a while back where they basically told someone to stop. I'd guess if you're in a PC2 bracket they may well let you do the 24 as you'd be considered a decent earner for them for comms elsewhere.
Absolutely correct.

There was a time I was banned. The ban was enforced in a very simple way, my account was suspended each time I transgressed into a single turnover charge market. No mercy, no allowance for PC. I understand it is not Betfair's fault, it is the stupidity of the racing industry and its capture by the corporate bookies.

There are some prior threads about this. At the time perhaps I constituted anywhere from 1% - 2% of the market. Watching the markets in the weeks when others were also subject to the ban, very little changed that I could see (IMHO). I thought kicking out myself and others might have a real impact. Didn't see it. The market just moved on. Lesson, I thought I was a big swing d*ck in the market, found out I'm not. It was a good reality check and a moment of humility. I'm a small and mildly profitable participant, that's it.
spreadbetting
Posts: 3140
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:06 pm

Dipstick wrote:
Fri Jan 19, 2018 8:32 am
One for Spreadbetting. You said above :

"Just avoid the turnover charge courses there are plenty of them, I've a list my bot uses if you need the courses"

Would be really helpful to have that list if you've got it. I looked at the Racenet link provided and it is a very long list - didn't realise aus had so many courses !
Here's the list I use to match for my bot, I've attached the Betfair list with full abbreviations too

Code: Select all

Alba (AUS),No Charge
Alby (AUS),Charge
AnPk (AUS),No Charge
APrk (AUS),No Charge
Arar (AUS),No Charge
Armi (AUS),Charge
Asct (AUS),No Charge
ASpr (AUS),No Charge
Avoc (AUS),No Charge
Bair (AUS),No Charge
Bala (AUS),No Charge
Bali (AUS),Charge
Ball (AUS),No Charge
Bank (AUS),Charge
Bath (AUS),Charge
Beau (AUS),No Charge
Belm (AUS),No Charge
Bena (AUS),No Charge
Bend (AUS),No Charge
Blay (AUS),Charge
BMsh (AUS),No Charge
Boor (AUS),No Charge
Bord (AUS),No Charge
Bowr (AUS),Charge
Brme (AUS),No Charge
BrnH (AUS),Charge
Bull (AUS),Charge
Bunb (AUS),No Charge
Bund (AUS),No Charge
Burn (AUS),No Charge
Buss (AUS),No Charge
Camp (AUS),No Charge
Canb (AUS),Charge
Cann (AUS),No Charge
Cant (AUS),Charge
Carn (AUS),No Charge
Carr (AUS),No Charge
Casi (AUS),Charge
Cast (AUS),No Charge
Caul (AUS),No Charge
Cess (AUS),Charge
Char (AUS),No Charge
Chrv (AUS),No Charge
Clre (AUS),No Charge
Cobr (AUS),No Charge
Coff (AUS),Charge
Cola (AUS),No Charge
Cole (AUS),No Charge
Cona (AUS),Charge
Cool (AUS),Charge
Coon (AUS),Charge
Coot (AUS),Charge
Coro (AUS),Charge
Cowr (AUS),Charge
Cran (AUS),No Charge
Crns (AUS),No Charge
Dalb (AUS),No Charge
Dapt (AUS),No Charge
Darw (AUS),No Charge
Deag (AUS),No Charge
Devn (AUS),No Charge
Donl (AUS),No Charge
Doom (AUS),No Charge
Dubb (AUS),Charge
Dunk (AUS),No Charge
Echu (AUS),No Charge
Eden (AUS),No Charge
EFrm (AUS),No Charge
Emer (AUS),No Charge
Espe (AUS),No Charge
Eugo (AUS),Charge
Fair (AUS),Charge
Flem (AUS),No Charge
Forb (AUS),Charge
Gard (AUS),No Charge
Gatt (AUS),No Charge
Gawl (AUS),No Charge
GCst (AUS),No Charge
Geel (AUS),No Charge
Gera (AUS),No Charge
Gilg (AUS),Charge
Ginn (AUS),Charge
GlbD (AUS),No Charge
GlPk (AUS),No Charge
Goon (AUS),No Charge
Gosf (AUS),Charge
Goul (AUS),Charge
Graf (AUS),Charge
Grif (AUS),Charge
Gunb (AUS),No Charge
Gund (AUS),Charge
Gunn (AUS),Charge
Gwes (AUS),No Charge
Hali (AUS),No Charge
Haml (AUS),No Charge
Harv (AUS),No Charge
Hawk (AUS),Charge
Heal (AUS),No Charge
Hoba (AUS),No Charge
HRck (AUS),No Charge
Hshm (AUS),No Charge
Inni (AUS),No Charge
Inve (AUS),Charge
Ipsw (AUS),No Charge
Jnee (AUS),Charge
June (AUS),Charge
KaIs (AUS),No Charge
Kalg (AUS),No Charge
Kapd (AUS),No Charge
Kell (AUS),No Charge
KemG (AUS),Charge
Kemp (AUS),Charge
Kera (AUS),No Charge
Kilc (AUS),No Charge
Kilm (AUS),No Charge
Kyne (AUS),No Charge
Laun (AUS),No Charge
Leet (AUS),Charge
Lism (AUS),Charge
Long (AUS),No Charge
Mack (AUS),No Charge
Mait (AUS),Charge
Mand (AUS),No Charge
Mary (AUS),No Charge
MBdg (AUS),No Charge
Mdra (AUS),No Charge
Mead (AUS),No Charge
Melt (AUS),No Charge
MGam (AUS),No Charge
MIsa (AUS),No Charge
Mngl (AUS),Charge
Moe (AUS),No Charge
Mree (AUS),Charge
More (AUS),Charge
Morn (AUS),No Charge
Morp (AUS),No Charge
Mort (AUS),No Charge
Moru (AUS),Charge
MtBk (AUS),No Charge
Mtng (AUS),No Charge
Mudg (AUS),Charge
Murt (AUS),No Charge
Murw (AUS),Charge
Musw (AUS),Charge
MVal (AUS),No Charge
Nara (AUS),No Charge
Narr (AUS),Charge
Nbri (AUS),Charge
Ndra (AUS),Charge
Newc (AUS),Charge
Ngin (AUS),No Charge
Nort (AUS),No Charge
Nowr (AUS),Charge
Nyah (AUS),No Charge
Oakb (AUS),No Charge
Orng (AUS),Charge
Ouyn (AUS),No Charge
Pakn (AUS),No Charge
Park (AUS),Charge
PAug (AUS),No Charge
Peak (AUS),Charge
Peno (AUS),No Charge
Penr (AUS),Charge
Phed (AUS),No Charge
Pinj (AUS),No Charge
PLin (AUS),No Charge
PMaq (AUS),Charge
PtPr (AUS),No Charge
Quea (AUS),Charge
Quir (AUS),Charge
Rand (AUS),Charge
Redc (AUS),No Charge
Roeb (AUS),No Charge
Rich (AUS),No Charge
Rock (AUS),No Charge
Roma (AUS),No Charge
Rose (AUS),Charge
Sale (AUS),No Charge
Sand (AUS),No Charge
Sapp (AUS),Charge
Scne (AUS),Charge
SCst (AUS),No Charge
Seym (AUS),No Charge
Shep (AUS),No Charge
SPrk (AUS),No Charge
StAr (AUS),No Charge
Staw (AUS),No Charge
StCr (AUS),No Charge
Stra (AUS),No Charge
SwnH (AUS),No Charge
Tamw (AUS),Charge
Tare (AUS),Charge
Tatu (AUS),No Charge
Temo (AUS),Charge
Tera (AUS),No Charge
Tood (AUS),No Charge
Toow (AUS),No Charge
Town (AUS),No Charge
Trar (AUS),No Charge
VicH (AUS),No Charge
Wagg (AUS),Charge
Wagi (AUS),No Charge
Walc (AUS),Charge
Wang (AUS),No Charge
Warn (AUS),Charge
Warr (AUS),No Charge
Warw (AUS),No Charge
Well (AUS),Charge
Werr (AUS),No Charge
WeWy (AUS),Charge
WFrm (AUS),Charge
Wgul (AUS),No Charge
Whya (AUS),No Charge
Wodg (AUS),No Charge
WPrk (AUS),No Charge
Wrck (AUS),No Charge
Wyng (AUS),Charge
YarV (AUS),No Charge
Yepp (AUS),No Charge
YGln (AUS),No Charge
York (AUS),No Charge
Youn (AUS),Charge
Wayv (AUS),No Charge
Well (AUS),Charge
WPrk (AUS),No Charge
Werr (AUS),No Charge
WeWy (AUS),Charge
Whya (AUS),No Charge
Wodg (AUS),No Charge
Wyng (AUS),Charge
YGln (AUS),No Charge
YarV (AUS),No Charge
Yepp (AUS),No Charge
York (AUS),No Charge
Youn (AUS),Charge
User avatar
Derek27
Posts: 23476
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:44 am
Location: UK

Randwick on tonight. :cry: :cry: :cry:

At least I've got Flemington. :D
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Derek27
Posts: 23476
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:44 am
Location: UK

Couldn't resist a quick dabble on the first at Randwick. It's amazing how quickly £1100 back stakes build up.
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Derek27
Posts: 23476
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:44 am
Location: UK

My charges have now been refunded but it took several emails and phone calls to do it. Thanks for the a advice on this one.
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Derek27
Posts: 23476
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:44 am
Location: UK

Disappointing day at Rosehill. I traded near my full TC limit and lost a few quid - but it will have cost Betfair more. :D
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