Trading Horse racing : Australian racing

The sport of kings.
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Naffman
Posts: 2459
Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2013 5:46 am

Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:14 pm

If manually trading these will show the meetings and (state) if unsure - https://www.racenet.com.au/racing-form-guide

I'm surprised they've given you a 3 meeting weekly limit tbh.

Just checked and they have a limit of $2000 in matched bets so that would rule most people out by the 3rd race.

Derek27
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Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:44 am
Location: UK

Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:50 pm

Naffman wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:14 pm
If manually trading these will show the meetings and (state) if unsure - https://www.racenet.com.au/racing-form-guide

I'm surprised they've given you a 3 meeting weekly limit tbh.

Just checked and they have a limit of $2000 in matched bets so that would rule most people out by the 3rd race.
You become liable if you've placed back bets on 25 markets or more, total back stake $2000 (£1150 approx) or more, and paid less than 1.5% commission on total back bets, so gamblers just backing would be OK. Didn't realise the back stake limit when I thought I could trade 3 meetings.

Are all NSW courses turnover charge markets and the ones outside non-turnover charge ?

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Naffman
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Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2013 5:46 am

Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:54 pm

All NSW horse and harness racing, think greyhound is alright though.

It used to be the majority of Australian states so it's a lot more trader friendly than it used to be.

Derek27
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Location: UK

Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:16 pm

I was just about to cry my eyes out when I realised Randwick is in NSW, but then I looked again at the criteria.

Who will pay the Turnover Charge?

This charge will only apply to customers who during a particular week (Monday to Sunday GMT) meet each of the below criteria:

have matched bets on 25 or more markets on which Betfair is subject to a turnover fee from Racing NSW (“turnover charge markets”);

have matched back bets with an aggregate value of AUS $2,000 or greater on turnover charge markets; and

the total commission generated by the customer on turnover charge markets is less than 1.5% of the aggregate value of matched back bets placed by the customer on those markets.


This means that you can bet as much as you like as long as you stop at 24 markets. :D Go beyond that though, and it could be an expensive mistake.

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Naffman
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Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2013 5:46 am

Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:03 am

Nsw turnover charge splits into 3 turnover charge percentage categories depending on the quality of the meeting 2 - 2.5 - 3% with most meetings at Randwick coming under the 2.5 - 3% bracket (I'd presume).

Good luck trading it but I fear they'll catch you up again even if only trading one meeting and back staking a mere £10K which would calc. to £250-300.

But take them for all they've got :lol:

Derek27
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Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:44 am
Location: UK

Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:25 pm

How do Betfair manage to absorb these charges?

If you trade £10k on 24 markets there's no turnover charge. But stake another £2 on a 25th and it's now £120.

Doesn't make much sense.

spreadbetting
Posts: 1605
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:06 pm

Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:27 pm

The simple fact is Betfair won't absorb them, if you start costing them money they will advise you to no longer bet on turnover charge markets regardless of any 24 market rule. There was a thread a while back where they basically told someone to stop. I'd guess if you're in a PC2 bracket they may well let you do the 24 as you'd be considered a decent earner for them for comms elsewhere.

Derek27
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Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:44 am
Location: UK

Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:00 pm

Thanks for that info. I suppose you can't really upset an organization that holds your funds and takes some of it whenever they feel like. :evil:

Dipstick
Posts: 52
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2015 10:08 pm

Fri Jan 19, 2018 8:32 am

One for Spreadbetting. You said above :

"Just avoid the turnover charge courses there are plenty of them, I've a list my bot uses if you need the courses"

Would be really helpful to have that list if you've got it. I looked at the Racenet link provided and it is a very long list - didn't realise aus had so many courses !

gazuty
Posts: 1025
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2011 11:03 am

Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:26 am

spreadbetting wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:27 pm
The simple fact is Betfair won't absorb them, if you start costing them money they will advise you to no longer bet on turnover charge markets regardless of any 24 market rule. There was a thread a while back where they basically told someone to stop. I'd guess if you're in a PC2 bracket they may well let you do the 24 as you'd be considered a decent earner for them for comms elsewhere.
Absolutely correct.

There was a time I was banned. The ban was enforced in a very simple way, my account was suspended each time I transgressed into a single turnover charge market. No mercy, no allowance for PC. I understand it is not Betfair's fault, it is the stupidity of the racing industry and its capture by the corporate bookies.

There are some prior threads about this. At the time perhaps I constituted anywhere from 1% - 2% of the market. Watching the markets in the weeks when others were also subject to the ban, very little changed that I could see (IMHO). I thought kicking out myself and others might have a real impact. Didn't see it. The market just moved on. Lesson, I thought I was a big swing d*ck in the market, found out I'm not. It was a good reality check and a moment of humility. I'm a small and mildly profitable participant, that's it.

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