Back or Lay at Betfair SP Guardian Automation Bot

[humanoid769]

I wish to modify this file to back at BSP on a specific BSP position, for example 5th Fav, at say All Weather tracks only .. is this something that could be done (as I couldn't find anything for track tyype) by modifying this file?

Thanks
Tony

[Dallas]

I wish to modify this file to back at BSP on a specific BSP position, for example 5th Fav, at say All Weather tracks only .. is this something that could be done (as I couldn't find anything for track tyype) by modifying this file?

Thanks
Tony

There is no condition to test the track surface or if it's a flat or jumps race.
However, the AW tracks listed below so if you apply a 'race distance condition' you can filter out those which also run NH races at the same course

Chelmsford
Kempton
Lingfield
Newcastle
Southwell
Wolverhampton

[firlandsfarm]

… because of the way BF handles the SP lay bets ...

Hi Dallas, I've wondered about this for ages having been on the end of 'unpredictable outcomes' when unmatched bets are converted … could you explain how they do it (and back bets).

[Dallas]

… because of the way BF handles the SP lay bets ...

Hi Dallas, I've wondered about this for ages having been on the end of 'unpredictable outcomes' when unmatched bets are converted … could you explain how they do it (and back bets).

It takes the liability your bet is placed at then adjust the stake to still achieve this liability at SP

So if you layed at 2.0 for £50 but the actual BSP was 3.0, then a bet of £25 will be placed (so you still only have the £50 liability), so you need to get your unmatched lay bet as close to the current price as possible so the stake value is not adjusted too much

[firlandsfarm]

It takes the liability your bet is placed at then adjust the stake to still achieve this liability at SP

Thanks Dallas, that's what I thought but I often get unmatched bets that don't get converted to SP and are usually reasonably close to the price at the off. I've just assumed in those cases they have run out of opposing unmatched money to balance the SP price. Could that be so and if not any thoughts why the bets are missed? I've noticed that the unmatched bets usually end up in either Lapsed or Cancelled. For example on Monday I had one bet Lapse where the details are curiously shown as a Lay at odds 1.01 and two bets Cancelled (not by me). Now I admit both Cancelled bets had drifted but nothing was matched and how does a lay at 1.01 lapse! I have asked Betfair about this and all I get is the 'cut and paste' reply of what a BSP bet is.

[Dallas]

It takes the liability your bet is placed at then adjust the stake to still achieve this liability at SP

Thanks Dallas, that's what I thought but I often get unmatched bets that don't get converted to SP and are usually reasonably close to the price at the off. I've just assumed in those cases they have run out of opposing unmatched money to balance the SP price. Could that be so and if not any thoughts why the bets are missed? I've noticed that the unmatched bets usually end up in either Lapsed or Cancelled. For example on Monday I had one bet Lapse where the details are curiously shown as a Lay at odds 1.01 and two bets Cancelled (not by me). Now I admit both Cancelled bets had drifted but nothing was matched and how does a lay at 1.01 lapse! I have asked Betfair about this and all I get is the 'cut and paste' reply of what a BSP bet is.

Did the lay bets meet the SP min £10 liability?

[firlandsfarm]

Did the lay bets meet the SP min £10 liability?

No but none of them did/do. I used to wonder about that but found it doesn't make any difference … as I'm trialling with real bets some that were 'accepted' for SP were below £2! Two that were successfully converted yesterday were for £1.25 and £1.99

[Dallas]

Did the lay bets meet the SP min £10 liability?

No but none of them did/do. I used to wonder about that but found it doesn't make any difference … as I'm trialling with real bets some that were 'accepted' for SP were below £2!

Not sure how you've managed to get some matched below the Min SP amounts and I'm not aware of anyone else who's managed this so sounds like you have then you've been lucky with them

[firlandsfarm]

Not sure how you've managed to get some matched below the Min SP amounts and I'm not aware of anyone else who's managed this so sounds like you have then you've been lucky with them

I don't see it as luck Dallas as I said I'm trialling two systems one with £2 bets and one with £1.13 bets! (sometimes I start at £1 stakes and increase/decrease by £0.01 per day win/lose). All bets have "take SP" set about 10 secs before the off and all are Lays. For example yesterday I had 22 bets match on "take SP" with the SP stakes ranging from 29p (yes pence ) up to the lofty heights of £2.19 (that was when both systems picked the same selection and that was the combined unmatched at the off). 6 didn't convert.

I've always been baffled by the way the SP is allocated with a "take SP" stake below £10.

Not quite on the same subject but maybe related. I thought the minimum stake to watch a race on Betfair is £5 but I've noticed recently that I can watch for a £2 stake and sometimes even down as low as £1 but not until after the off … pre-off it says you haven't staked enough. Might be interesting if others have found this.

The only other thing I can add is that I am looking at laying longshots so the actual liability can be high even if the stake is low … maybe that has something to do with it?

[Dallas]

Not sure how you've managed to get some matched below the Min SP amounts and I'm not aware of anyone else who's managed this so sounds like you have then you've been lucky with them

I don't see it as luck Dallas as I said I'm trialling two systems one with £2 bets and one with £1.13 bets! (sometimes I start at £1 stakes and increase/decrease by £0.01 per day win/lose). All bets have "take SP" set about 10 secs before the off and all are Lays. For example yesterday I had 22 bets match on "take SP" with the SP stakes ranging from 29p (yes pence ) up to the lofty heights of £2.19 (that was when both systems picked the same selection and that was the combined unmatched at the off). 6 didn't convert.

I've always been baffled by the way the SP is allocated with a "take SP" stake below £10.

Not quite on the same subject but maybe related. I thought the minimum stake to watch a race on Betfair is £5 but I've noticed recently that I can watch for a £2 stake and sometimes even down as low as £1 but not until after the off … pre-off it says you haven't staked enough. Might be interesting if others have found this.

The only other thing I can add is that I am looking at laying longshots so the actual liability can be high even if the stake is low … maybe that has something to do with it?

I did state above the min for SP lays is £10 liability so bets of a few pence will go through if high enough, those that don't will (should) be rejected by Betfair, I've certainly not heard of anyone getting a lay with a liability of less than £10 through as an SP bet nor a back bet with a stake below £2 (which is the SP min for back bets)

The bet required to access the BF live video was reduced last year from £5 to £2, but not tried any lower after the off to see if that works

[firlandsfarm]

I did state above the min for SP lays is £10 liability so bets of a few pence will go through if high enough, those that don't will (should) be rejected by Betfair, I've certainly not heard of anyone getting a lay with a liability of less than £10 through as an SP bet nor a back bet with a stake below £2 (which is the SP min for back bets)

OK, maybe we have had a little cross purposes here … if placing an intended SP Lay i.e. SP from the start. no "take SP" at the off, then the Betfair website says …

Win Only Market
Minimum stake for lay BSP is £10 (my emphasis)

… So maybe it was wrong of me to assume you saying it is a £10 liability was a typo!

Are you saying it's £10 liability if done as a "take SP" at the off? That may explain things.

[Dallas]

Yes, any lay bets where you use take SP must have a liability of £10 or more or BF will reject them when they reconcile SP

Even if you layed at 2.0 for £20 (so had a £20 liability) then took SP
Then following that £12 of it was matched before the off leaving only £8 at the time the race is turned in play this will be rejected by BF as it's now below £10 min liability

[firlandsfarm]

Yes, any lay bets where you use take SP must have a liability of £10 or more or BF will reject them when they reconcile SP

Even if you layed at 2.0 for £20 (so had a £20 liability) then took SP
Then following that £12 of it was matched before the off leaving only £8 at the time the race is turned in play this will be rejected by BF as it's now below £10 min liability

OK, well you learn something every day and sometimes something interesting like this So it's a minimum £10 stake to place an SP bet but a minimum £10 liability to 'take' an SP bet. Such a simple workaround of the minimum stake requirement. I can work to that

Thanks Dallas

[Dallas]

Yes, any lay bets where you use take SP must have a liability of £10 or more or BF will reject them when they reconcile SP

Even if you layed at 2.0 for £20 (so had a £20 liability) then took SP
Then following that £12 of it was matched before the off leaving only £8 at the time the race is turned in play this will be rejected by BF as it's now below £10 min liability

OK, well you learn something every day and sometimes something interesting like this So it's a minimum £10 stake to place an SP bet but a minimum £10 liability to 'take' an SP bet. Such a simple workaround of the minimum stake requirement. I can work to that

Thanks Dallas

You could place any sized lay bet you want and take SP and it will show as that in the unmatched area on Bet Angel, but when it comes to the start of the race Betfair will reject any that have a liability of less than £10

[firlandsfarm]

you could place any sized lay bet you want and take SP and it will show as that in the unmatched area on Bet Angel, but when it comes to the start of the race Betfair will reject any that have a liability of less than £10

Yes I was aware of that it was just the switch from a stake minimum to a liability minimum I wasn't aware of