Timeform in play horse prices

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ashsmithy
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2018 3:56 pm

Hi guys, just found out that after the endless hours I spent collecting data on in running horse prices it was a complete waste of time as the Timeform in running highs and lows are NOT CORRECT
Its amazing how I managed to get a trigger on the winner at Lingfield (3.0 bsp) in play when its last traded price was greater than 5.0 and actually traded a matched bet at 4.5 when at the highst point this horse traded at 3.5 according to Timeform, just amazing. This is not a one off, I've only been watching races in real time for a couple of days and this is consistent behaviour.
Just a heads up so you guys don't waste your time on collecting very inacurate data from this poor website.
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Derek27
Posts: 23477
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Location: UK

I think reported in-play highs and lows may be based on a minimum amount traded. I know that used to be the case but can't remember what the minimum is.
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Dallas
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Location: Working From Home

The Timeform prices have had a minimum of £100 matched, so when looking for lows the actual price could have traded much lower but for only a few quid
JTEDL
Posts: 536
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2017 2:21 pm

The above reasons are why I don't use the Timeform website as much as I used to, I kind of reckoned the in running dats must be accurate but getting matched at those prices is another thing.
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Derek27
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Location: UK

Dallas wrote:
Sat Dec 22, 2018 3:04 pm
The Timeform prices have had a minimum of £100 matched, so when looking for lows the actual price could have traded much lower but for only a few quid
So the £63 matched today at 1000 won't count!

It should be based on layer's liability rather than matched stake.
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ShaunWhite
Posts: 9731
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:42 am

As Dallas says, it's £100. It's a much better measure of a horses performance than showing random price spikes for a £1 which would be meaningless.

Admittedly £63@1000 isn't trivial. But then again it's not typical, so you have to set the parameters of an automated system somewhere. Seems to work fine in the majority of cases.
LinusP
Posts: 1871
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:45 pm

I know the betfair data is £100 matched or £100 payout but according to timeform docs it’s minimum stake so who knows.
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ShaunWhite
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There's nothing like the facts for getting to the correct answer.
:oops:
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Andriy
Posts: 71
Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2013 5:39 pm

I always understood it to be a £100 payout ie. stake+winnings (calculated weirdly as per the Daq approach) and some time back (years) validated this using some data for odds-on losers in running taken from graphs straight after the race, and then comparing it with the Timeform IR-low subsequently provided on their data page.

Eg, if graph after race gives you:
Price Traded/matched
1.2 £150
1.3 £100
1.4 £150

Then, at 1.2, £75 staked at 1.2 (75+15 winnings =£90, less than 100, not included).
At 1.3 £50 staked at 1.3 (50+15 winnings = £65, less than 100, not included).
At 1.4 £75 staked at 1.4 (75+30 winnings = £105, =>100, given as price).

Certainly for long odds on it can make a significant difference based on a few tenners at very short prices, and a seemingly much bigger price given on the data page.

Maybe nowadays, accuracy has gone down the spout, costcutting/lapsadaisical ...or just changed the method :?:
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Derek27
Posts: 23477
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:44 am
Location: UK

Andriy wrote:
Sun Dec 23, 2018 4:34 pm
I always understood it to be a £100 payout ie. stake+winnings (calculated weirdly as per the Daq approach) and some time back (years) validated this using some data for odds-on losers in running taken from graphs straight after the race, and then comparing it with the Timeform IR-low subsequently provided on their data page.

Eg, if graph after race gives you:
Price Traded/matched
1.2 £150
1.3 £100
1.4 £150

Then, at 1.2, £75 staked at 1.2 (75+15 winnings =£90, less than 100, not included).
At 1.3 £50 staked at 1.3 (50+15 winnings = £65, less than 100, not included).
At 1.4 £75 staked at 1.4 (75+30 winnings = £105, =>100, given as price).

Certainly for long odds on it can make a significant difference based on a few tenners at very short prices, and a seemingly much bigger price given on the data page.

Maybe nowadays, accuracy has gone down the spout, costcutting/lapsadaisical ...or just changed the method :?:
That would make far more sense and make more appropriate data for traders working on in-play strategies, as not many people would want £100 on at 1000.
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