My Daily Trading Results - Scientific Trading

Football, Soccer - whatever you call it. It is the beautiful game.
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ruthlessimon
Posts: 2094
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2016 3:54 pm

Sorry - the worlds best manual sports trader disagrees with your viewpoint. (& if he doesn't, then I misread his post badly wrong!!)

I think it's important to be open to new ideas. Whenever someone challenges my viewpoint (with a valid argument) I always strive to understand it - & it might just make me a better trader. Although that said, there is certainly value in being dogmatic
Halliday
Posts: 460
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2016 3:40 pm

lmf21734 wrote:
Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:53 pm
Oh and by the way some of the worlds greatest traders also use monte carlo. Traders (Peter Brandt and Van Tharp) who were interviewees in Jack Schwagers "Market Wizards".

https://www.peterlbrandt.com/traders-he ... mpetition/

Also Dr Van Tharp another market wizard also uses monte carlo

http://vantharp.com/products/Power_of_P ... lained.asp

So what's your point.

Thats why i dont really give a monkeys about what people in the sports industry say. My methods and philosophy are based on principles from financial traders who consistently talk about how your edge can work given the combination of win rate, risk to reward, sample size and money management.

They way I trade is what I call disruptive trading because it rattles the archaic and constrained way of approaching trading that I constantly see in the sports industry especially from system sellers. Yet what is required is just an understanding of simple math. The difficult part is finding the edge. That I agree with. But when you have the edge that is where things start to really becoming interesting.

Anyway I have said my peace. Reading about Copernicus and how he disrupted the people of his day is a great day.

I will continue to post daily trades and I assure you in 3 months time I will come back to ask whether you think something which is a fluke could continue for 4-5 months considering that over 125 trades will be placed each month.

Cheers

Mel (The Scientia Trader)
"have attached my results since Easter and will now update on a daily basis. The objective is to show how with a decent strategy that employs specific principles from financial trading, one can make a full time living from trading. For instance on Saturday I traded the morning session and then the evening session and made just under £1000. Also made a couple of £400+ days."

I can never understand the need to post P/L , especially as so many have been discredited on this forum and other sites . You have them on your website( could one ask why you decided to have a website ?) and on twitter .. if you desperately feel the need ( cant think why) for anyone on here to see your screenshots why not just post the link ?

It's strange how original posters language changes when there views , and strategies are challenged, as in your case. When you start saying things like "what's the point " and I don't really give a monkeys , it does make one wonder about your temperament, and begs the question why post on a forum, rather then concentrate on your trading without these distractions .

Sure we could all find something useful in a positive or negative way in your musings ...without the P/L
Halliday
Posts: 460
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2016 3:40 pm

Oh and you have your P/L on the Geek Toy forum too .. but of course not trying promoting anything !!
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lmf21734
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Halliday

You make some great points.

If you detect an irritating reaction its borne out of the fact for so many years I was taught that the approach I had studied in financial trading wasnt really applicable to sports trading and so I lost so many years until I decided to completely unlearn what I had been taught in sports trading forums about trading and go ahead an apply what I had learnt from financial trading.

And since then my consistency and profitability accelerated but not after I also worked on my psychology.

So when people try to bring me back to the theories and approaches that I left it naturally causes a reaction because its not possible for me to take what has been working and go back to approaches which were either very limited or simply didn't produce the rate of return that I was seeking.

However you have made a good point that a forum is all about debating and reasoning so I take your point on board.

Cheers

Mel (The Scientia Trader)

p.s. why does everyone think that someone has to have a motive to sell or promote something. Just dont understand. If you check my website its clearly about concepts. Nothing to do with sales...Its about challenging old paradigms and helping people to think outside the usual when it comes to their trading development.
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ShaunWhite
Posts: 9731
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:42 am

If you're approach is systematic why do you set a max daily loss?

You also compare your strategy with 'trading systems' being sold.... I don't know any successful trader who's using an off the shelf system. Like you, everyone has their own approach.

I read your site, I'm not seeing anything especially 'disruptive' just an acceptance that your strike rate needn't be high to be profitable and borrowing as few standard principles from financials. What am I failing to understand that's justifying your not inconsiderable hype? Simply put, what's new? What paradigms are you challenging?

Some people here have been trading sports for almost 20yrs, you might be surprised what's been tried, maybe it's worth checking if you have indeed discovered something unique before claiming your approach beats any other and that current thinking isn't optimal. That said history is littered with people to whom that didn't seem to matter.
Halliday
Posts: 460
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2016 3:40 pm

lmf21734 wrote:
Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:29 pm
Halliday

You make some great points.

If you detect an irritating reaction its borne out of the fact for so many years I was taught that the approach I had studied in financial trading wasnt really applicable to sports trading and so I lost so many years until I decided to completely unlearn what I had been taught in sports trading forums about trading and go ahead an apply what I had learnt from financial trading.

And since then my consistency and profitability accelerated but not after I also worked on my psychology.

So when people try to bring me back to the theories and approaches that I left it naturally causes a reaction because its not possible for me to take what has been working and go back to approaches which were either very limited or simply didn't produce the rate of return that I was seeking.

However you have made a good point that a forum is all about debating and reasoning so I take your point on board.

Cheers

Mel (The Scientia Trader)

p.s. why does everyone think that someone has to have a motive to sell or promote something. Just dont understand. If you check my website its clearly about concepts. Nothing to do with sales...Its about challenging old paradigms and helping people to think outside the usual when it comes to their trading development.
A lot of waffle, much of it meaningless, but nothing new or challenging . And you still haven’t answered any of the points raised. You just seem like so many that come and go on this forum and others. Nothing unique or different

So why the website, Twitter , numerous forums etc, and this fascination with posting your P/L everywhere ?
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ShaunWhite
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Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:42 am

lmf21734 wrote:
Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:53 pm
Oh and by the way some of the worlds greatest traders also use monte carlo
Monte Carlo assumes sufficient liquidity at your selected prices, I see you're on some very small markets. The one thing a Monte Carlo simulation will tell you is, it's 15 euros for a cup of coffee.

Mel you can't get irrited by comments, if you're going to set up a website, social media, post on forums and plan a twice a week web broadcast, all on the back of 120 trades, you must have a sense of humour.

You say ....."They way I trade is what I call disruptive trading because it rattles the archaic and constrained way of approaching trading" but you conclude your site with...""Ultimately it really boils down to having a positive expectancy".

I don't know what trading forums you've been using, but search this one for "positive expectancy" and see what you get.

If you want to be a disrupter, have a chat with the guys on here who are working on ai and machine learning.
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lmf21734
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14th April 2018
Net P/L = £357.05

Finished trading for the day as time to take advantage of a pleasant Saturday afternoon.
14apr18.jpg
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spreadbetting
Posts: 3140
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:06 pm

That's the spirit, knock off early on the busy day of football so you can get up early tomorrow to bet on some illiquid obscure Japanese markets :)

I'd be interested to see these actual trades but some how doubt those screenshots will show up ;)
Halliday
Posts: 460
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2016 3:40 pm

lmf21734 wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 3:14 pm
14th April 2018
Net P/L = £357.05

Finished trading for the day as time to take advantage of a pleasant Saturday afternoon.

14apr18.jpg
To quote you from an earlier post

" Point of this is exercise on the forum is to simply provide daily results." ... can you explain why you need to do this ?

There appears to be an awful lot of self promotion on here and other sites , by your good self and your "product" as you refer to it ... with little or no substance .. tho you have one hell of a disclaimer on your website for someone who has no intention of ever selling your " product ".Apparently you are "a spokesman of Scientiatrading.com"

How many posters on here who offer far more useful advice and comment have a similar disclaimer and refer to themselves in similar language ?


http://scientiatrading.com/disclaimer.htm
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Euler
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Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:39 pm
Location: Bet Angel HQ

I spotted last night that there is cross-posting of the same style on different forums, so this does look a bit fishy to me.

I'd imagine some of the other forums would welcome some posts, but we just want quality and to talk about trading and it's various aspects, not be a place for promoting a third party website. You are speaking to some of the biggest traders in the industry on this forum who can spot somebody odd at ten paces, so it would be better to come clean and / or discuss strategies and tactics rather than make this some sort of protracted pitch they forum members wont buy anyhow.
Halliday
Posts: 460
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2016 3:40 pm

Euler wrote:
Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:14 am
I spotted last night that there is cross-posting of the same style on different forums, so this does look a bit fishy to me.

I'd imagine some of the other forums would welcome some posts, but we just want quality and to talk about trading and it's various aspects, not be a place for promoting a third party website. You are speaking to some of the biggest traders in the industry on this forum who can spot somebody odd at ten paces, so it would be better to come clean and / or discuss strategies and tactics rather than make this some sort of protracted pitch they forum members wont buy anyhow.
Agree with you .. clearly for whatever reason a case of promoting himself and his website , on here and other forums ,as well as twitter etc . Tho as he ( the spokesman for scientia trading. com no less ) said in an earlier post ... the website is about a concept , not about selling , what he himself ) the spokesman for scientia trading.com ) describes as a product .

Judge for yourself
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lmf21734
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Absolutely love the messages being generated. I clearly don't need to do any more PR because you are all doing it for me with each message you post nitpicking, complaining and moaning. You are doing my work and I am not even paying you for your time. Absolutely love it.. Keep it up because all you are doing is doing my work....I no longer have to feel like Deontay Wilder. I now have PR team working for me....Much appreciated. :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

As one of my trading mentors told me last week. Many people have theorems and ideas and concepts about why, what, how, can, can't, why etc but at the end of the day the final arbitrator of what you believe about your trading over time, is the consistency and rate of growth of your bank balance.

I have to assume that those being negative and self proclaimed oracles aiming constant shots are full time traders making at least £2000 per week. You just have to be because if you are so right then your results would mean you would easily be able to work full time trading....In fact are you able to share your daily and weekly results?????

I say this all tongue in cheek. But gents keep the posting going because its great and I am loving it as I now see the benefit. I realize if I had a strategy which wasn't working and posting mostly negative profits for the most part that probably that is more acceptable and you wouldn't see the need of doing PR for me and thus I would have to work that much harder....

Appreciate it gents.... :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
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lmf21734
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Anyway that's the last post I make like that (tongue in cheek)...
.
Euler is right as its not about making this a tit for tat

I will continue to post my daily results and then talk in more detail in May as I am starting some webinars to talk freely about my approach....Its difficult sometimes explaining just by writing so I believe the webinars will help you to understand my approach and even if you disagree at least you will have an opportunity hear from me directly and for me to address questions directly whilst on air.

Mel
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lmf21734
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If you're approach is systematic why do you set a max daily loss?

(Systematic does not mean that there are not controls and checks and balances put in place...A maximum daily loss is set because its protection against days where possibly I could hit a losing streak of 5-8 losses in a row if I continued to trade on hoping that probability would reverse back in my favour)

You also compare your strategy with 'trading systems' being sold.... I don't know any successful trader who's using an off the shelf system. Like you, everyone has their own approach.

(Many traders I have spoken to are using off the shelf systems being sold to them.....I have nothing against people wanting to sell systems but do believe that that a lot what is being sold are systems that simply have no value or proper edge....I just feel if people are more taught how to properly develop their own system or approaches that is much more beneficial than following tips and strategies of someone else..)

I read your site, I'm not seeing anything especially 'disruptive' just an acceptance that your strike rate needn't be high to be profitable and borrowing as few standard principles from financials. What am I failing to understand that's justifying your not inconsiderable hype? Simply put, what's new? What paradigms are you challenging?

(The most constant thing I have come across are system sellers selling systems on the basis of a high win rate without disclosing the other ingredients i.e. reward to risk ratio.....I am part of a membership where a lot of us have shared similar experiences where in our desperation to make a better life financially we have been caught out by system sellers whose systems have no real edge and are purely wanting to generate money by selling systems)

Some people here have been trading sports for almost 20yrs, you might be surprised what's been tried, maybe it's worth checking if you have indeed discovered something unique before claiming your approach beats any other and that current thinking isn't optimal. That said history is littered with people to whom that didn't seem to matter.

(I am not saying my approach beats anybody. If you look at what I said I actually said there are multiple paths to profitability. However in the area of football trading where its much more difficult than say tennis or darts because of the lack of market swings or horse racing because of the lack of market moving scalping opportunities I have found that concentrating more on risk reward than win rate over time seems to be better from my experience.)
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