Increasing # of matches not going inplay

Football, Soccer - whatever you call it. It is the beautiful game.
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napshnap
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These all are bad signs: charges for new exchange api devs, devs forum killing, horseracing liquidity decline, 60% premium charges robbery, and now this.
They are killing exchange slowly, making it sportbook's poor relative! :cry:
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BetScalper
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Don't know why people are that shocked.

Now PaddyPower are involved (bookmakers) wasn't it obvious they would push for a sports book and slowly but surely dump the exchange by making it unattractive over time.

I have noticed the adverts about betfair where you can bet against each other with your own odds seemed to have stopped.

In 5 years time it will be the PaddyPower/Betfair sports book only, me thinks. They may allow laying but it will be totally different to Betfair now.

I don't know, just my thoughts on the subject....
spreadbetting
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Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:06 pm

BetScalper wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 6:24 pm
Don't know why people are that shocked.

Now PaddyPower are involved (bookmakers) wasn't it obvious they would push for a sports book and slowly but surely dump the exchange by making it unattractive over time.

I have noticed the adverts about betfair where you can bet against each other with your own odds seemed to have stopped.

In 5 years time it will be the PaddyPower/Betfair sports book only, me thinks. They may allow laying but it will be totally different to Betfair now.

I don't know, just my thoughts on the subject....

People have been predicting the demise of betting exchanges for as long as I can remember but they're still here. If PP/Betfair dumped the exchange someone else would pick up baton, they went from nothing to a Billion £ company so it's not as if there isn't money in the exchange idea.

Many of us were around in the early days with exchanges like flutter, play2match etc and they had a fraction of the liquidity exhcanges have now. You could make a decent living back then and I'd imagine as long as you adapt you'll be able to make a decent living from exchanges for a long time to come.
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BetScalper
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spreadbetting wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 6:38 pm
BetScalper wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 6:24 pm
Don't know why people are that shocked.

Now PaddyPower are involved (bookmakers) wasn't it obvious they would push for a sports book and slowly but surely dump the exchange by making it unattractive over time.

I have noticed the adverts about betfair where you can bet against each other with your own odds seemed to have stopped.

In 5 years time it will be the PaddyPower/Betfair sports book only, me thinks. They may allow laying but it will be totally different to Betfair now.

I don't know, just my thoughts on the subject....

People have been predicting the demise of betting exchanges for as long as I can remember but they're still here. If PP/Betfair dumped the exchange someone else would pick up baton, they went from nothing to a Billion £ company so it's not as if there isn't money in the exchange idea.

Many of us were around in the early days with exchanges like flutter, play2match etc and they had a fraction of the liquidity exhcanges have now. You could make a decent living back then and I'd imagine as long as you adapt you'll be able to make a decent living from exchanges for a long time to come.
I totally agree...

Personally I don't know what all the fuss is about. I don't trade any market unless there is > 100k matched before I even think about entering. And that means when it comes to football you don't need to worry about it not going in play etc.

It seems people are trying to bet on obscure games where, generally there is no interest from a liquidity point of view.
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Kafkaesque
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BetScalper wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 6:24 pm
Don't know why people are that shocked.

Now PaddyPower are involved (bookmakers) wasn't it obvious they would push for a sports book and slowly but surely dump the exchange by making it unattractive over time.

I have noticed the adverts about betfair where you can bet against each other with your own odds seemed to have stopped.

In 5 years time it will be the PaddyPower/Betfair sports book only, me thinks. They may allow laying but it will be totally different to Betfair now.

I don't know, just my thoughts on the subject....
That's a very valid point, and I agree with the essence of it. I'm not terribly surprised and certainly not shocked.

The main issue for me isn't that they're reducing the number of inplay matches. Rather it's that done due either sneaking it in or through opting for cheap, poor inplay service provider. If they just reduced inplay across the board, it's possible to adjust accordingly. Should the product just be reduced in "quality" as a whole, I would find it a shame but could better say, okay I'll have to deal. When it's done seemingly at random and where they initially promise inplay service only to change it at the last minute. That's just poor service, and I think, we as customers have the right to question what the future plan is.
spreadbetting wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 6:38 pm
You could make a decent living back then and I'd imagine as long as you adapt you'll be able to make a decent living from exchanges for a long time to come.
Agree with this also, but it would be rather nice to know what conditions, we're meant to adapt to.
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wearthefoxhat
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Kafkaesque wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 7:04 pm
BetScalper wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 6:24 pm
Don't know why people are that shocked.

Now PaddyPower are involved (bookmakers) wasn't it obvious they would push for a sports book and slowly but surely dump the exchange by making it unattractive over time.

I have noticed the adverts about betfair where you can bet against each other with your own odds seemed to have stopped.

In 5 years time it will be the PaddyPower/Betfair sports book only, me thinks. They may allow laying but it will be totally different to Betfair now.

I don't know, just my thoughts on the subject....
That's a very valid point, and I agree with the essence of it. I'm not terribly surprised and certainly not shocked.

The main issue for me isn't that they're reducing the number of inplay matches. Rather it's that done due either sneaking it in or through opting for cheap, poor inplay service provider. If they just reduced inplay across the board, it's possible to adjust accordingly. Should the product just be reduced in "quality" as a whole, I would find it a shame but could better say, okay I'll have to deal. When it's done seemingly at random and where they initially promise inplay service only to change it at the last minute. That's just poor service, and I think, we as customers have the right to question what the future plan is.
spreadbetting wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 6:38 pm
You could make a decent living back then and I'd imagine as long as you adapt you'll be able to make a decent living from exchanges for a long time to come.
Agree with this also, but it would be rather nice to know what conditions, we're meant to adapt to.

I recently watched a you tube video, quite interesting in its own right, but shows an IP football market and how poorly managed it was by the data providers. If you watch from 2.00 minutes on, you'll see what happens.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tENm5oTYR4Q
spreadbetting
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Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:06 pm

wearthefoxhat wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 8:45 pm
I recently watched a you tube video, quite interesting in its own right, but shows an IP football market and how poorly managed it was by the data providers. If you watch from 2.00 minutes on, you'll see what happens.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tENm5oTYR4Q
That's basically down to sloppy traders not watching a feed and the VAR coming into play disallowing the goal. It'll be interesting to see how Betfair approach the World Cup games, whether they'll be over cautious or let the markets play out so they don't lose out on comms from matched bets.
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wearthefoxhat
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spreadbetting wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 8:54 pm
wearthefoxhat wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 8:45 pm
I recently watched a you tube video, quite interesting in its own right, but shows an IP football market and how poorly managed it was by the data providers. If you watch from 2.00 minutes on, you'll see what happens.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tENm5oTYR4Q
That's basically down to sloppy traders not watching a feed and the VAR coming into play disallowing the goal. It'll be interesting to see how Betfair approach the World Cup games, whether they'll be over cautious or let the markets play out so they don't lose out on comms from matched bets.
Ah yes..VAR.. Presents an opportunity in the World Cup for sure, if this video is anything to go by!
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Kafkaesque
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BetScalper wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 7:03 pm
spreadbetting wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 6:38 pm
BetScalper wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 6:24 pm
Don't know why people are that shocked.

Now PaddyPower are involved (bookmakers) wasn't it obvious they would push for a sports book and slowly but surely dump the exchange by making it unattractive over time.

I have noticed the adverts about betfair where you can bet against each other with your own odds seemed to have stopped.

In 5 years time it will be the PaddyPower/Betfair sports book only, me thinks. They may allow laying but it will be totally different to Betfair now.

I don't know, just my thoughts on the subject....

People have been predicting the demise of betting exchanges for as long as I can remember but they're still here. If PP/Betfair dumped the exchange someone else would pick up baton, they went from nothing to a Billion £ company so it's not as if there isn't money in the exchange idea.

Many of us were around in the early days with exchanges like flutter, play2match etc and they had a fraction of the liquidity exhcanges have now. You could make a decent living back then and I'd imagine as long as you adapt you'll be able to make a decent living from exchanges for a long time to come.
I totally agree...

Personally I don't know what all the fuss is about. I don't trade any market unless there is > 100k matched before I even think about entering. And that means when it comes to football you don't need to worry about it not going in play etc.

It seems people are trying to bet on obscure games where, generally there is no interest from a liquidity point of view.
Specifically there's an issue with 10-20 % of MLS matches, just as an example. That's not obscure markets with no interest. They are 50k+ markets.

Even beyond specific examples, then just because it doesn't effect where you trade/where you deem people should be trading, doesn't make it a non-issue by default. It effects less than 1 % of markets, I actually trade. That doesn't stop me being concerned where it will lead.

Clearly, there's likely to be a breaking point in terms of how big the markets can be, before it doesn't make sense anymore for BF to try to cut cost corners and/or to try to lead people to the sportsbook. However, if they get away with it at a certain level of markets with no (exchange) customer reaction and positive net result on the bottom line, they'll keep trying for bigger markets. Standing off and claiming it doesn't effect you, because it doesn't yet is a dangerous position and a bit of a trading-version light Niemoller-moment.

Just today they had to suspend the Australia vs Czech Rep match 90 minutes before kickoff and void all bets. Not a huge market, but not exactly a tiny one either. The service provider had missed that the match was being played on neutral ground in Austria.
spreadbetting
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I don't think it's a case of BEtfair trying to direct people to the sportsbook, the sportsbook will be using exactly the same service provider for their market data too. It's basically down to the fact for some matches the data provided is unreliable because there's simply no real call for it. The service providers most likely supply data to all the sportsbooks, especially for the smaller games, so I'd guess they've pretty much a monopoly and no competition. I remember seeing jobs advertised for them in the past and for those games it's little more than a free ticket on offer for the match at lower leagues with only one person covering the game. If they can't be bothered to turn up , go for a slash etc the feed basically gets suspended.
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Dallas
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He's a blog from a scout a few years ago
https://www.betangel.com/blog_wp/2015/0 ... ata-scout/
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Br0-_-888
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spreadbetting wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 8:54 pm
wearthefoxhat wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 8:45 pm
I recently watched a you tube video, quite interesting in its own right, but shows an IP football market and how poorly managed it was by the data providers. If you watch from 2.00 minutes on, you'll see what happens.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tENm5oTYR4Q
That's basically down to sloppy traders not watching a feed and the VAR coming into play disallowing the goal. It'll be interesting to see how Betfair approach the World Cup games, whether they'll be over cautious or let the markets play out so they don't lose out on comms from matched bets.
I've witnessed 'ghost trade' before recently, there was a disallowed goal in Vendee Les Herbiers v PSG 08/05/18, similar circumstances, fortunately for me I was on the winning side of that one
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Kafkaesque
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spreadbetting wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 1:03 pm
I don't think it's a case of BEtfair trying to direct people to the sportsbook, the sportsbook will be using exactly the same service provider for their market data too. It's basically down to the fact for some matches the data provided is unreliable because there's simply no real call for it. The service providers most likely supply data to all the sportsbooks, especially for the smaller games, so I'd guess they've pretty much a monopoly and no competition. I remember seeing jobs advertised for them in the past and for those games it's little more than a free ticket on offer for the match at lower leagues with only one person covering the game. If they can't be bothered to turn up , go for a slash etc the feed basically gets suspended.
You would think so, if it weren't for the fact that, as has already been mentioned in this thread, there's been several cases, where there's been a live feed and inplay available for the sportsbook but not the exchange (even with it being deemed going inplay on the exchange pre and then not being so). And BF CS telling me straight up that the sportsbook and exchange are seperate platforms, using two different service providers!
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Kafkaesque
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Dallas wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 1:08 pm
He's a blog from a scout a few years ago
https://www.betangel.com/blog_wp/2015/0 ... ata-scout/
Cheers for that, good little read.

I do recall years back, every once in a while there would be matches suspended due to "match reporter is unreliable" are something worded along those lines. Credit where it's due....that has disappeared (as best I can tell).
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Kafkaesque
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I've been pushing and shoving them lot at the BF HQ from time to time. FYI this got in today:

Hi there. We would firstly like to sincerely apologize for the inconveniences caused. We are well aware that we did incur technical issues with games going in-play on our Exchange platform, with particular reference to games which show limited coverage on television. We have been in contact with our Exchange Department and have provided feedback with regards to this.

From what we understand, they are currently exploring the possibility of changing the Live Feed Provider as many-a-time we are only informed that they will not be covering the match in-play as soon as the event kicks off, resulting in an inconvenience for our customers. Therefore, they are currently exploring this possibility, albeit to no success at this point. However, this should be resolved within the upcoming weeks.

While we do understand your frustration, we would kindly ask you to be a bit patient with us while we do attempt to get the matter resolved. It is an internal issue which we are currently working with our Exchange Department to get resolved.
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