Tennis Trading : Delay down to 3 sec - Betfair teaming up with courtsiders?

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gsa
Posts: 51
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Wed Jan 29, 2020 11:03 am

Hi!
Unfortunately I can't trade this years Australian Open myself. But what I heard from a friend, Betfair reduced the Tennis inplay delay to 3 sec. He got in touch with Betfair Support and they confirmed to plan to keep it that way.
This basicly means, that even with live scores you can't leave any orders in the market without constantly being in risk to be f**ked by courtsiders. Any idea why Betfair is trying to help the courtsiders? Or are the courtsiding themself?
Georg

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Euler
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Wed Jan 29, 2020 12:08 pm

Doesn't feel very fair, especially given that the tournament is so far away. Advantage courtsiders.

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Kai
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Wed Jan 29, 2020 12:23 pm

gsa wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 11:03 am
This basicly means, that even with live scores you can't leave any orders in the market without constantly being in risk to be f**ked by courtsiders.
This is why I always said that market making approaches in tennis are too fragile long term because of the presence of courtsiders who would love nothing better but to swoop up all of those leftover stakes, I've seen a lot of people that basically just market make on tennis, some manually and some through automation but it's not an endgame trading style. You can try and find ways to trade around the courtsiders but a better solution is to just accept them and use them, they bring a ton of liquidity to the markets and provide scaling opportunities, I don't think traders like Dallas are too bothered with the lower delay.

Lowering the delay to 3 seconds should be a good thing for a trader, but instead a lot of people on tennis are panicking over this change. If they did that on football all of the footy traders would be popping champagne in celebration.

Btw, it's been mentioned before but there's a little book on Amazon called "Game, Set, Cash!", I've not read it but it probably gives some insight into the world of courtsiding.

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rik
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Wed Jan 29, 2020 1:41 pm

not sure courtsiders would be more profitable because of that, most feeds including betfair video are more than 5 seconds behind anyway and less delay might just enable people to get matched between points better

sniffer66
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Wed Jan 29, 2020 1:49 pm

rik wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 1:41 pm
not sure courtsiders would be more profitable because of that, most feeds including betfair video are more than 5 seconds behind anyway and less delay might just enable people to get matched between points better
This is what I was trying to get my head around - though I've been up all night so not 100% on the ball.

Coutsiders have an advantage due to to being able to react faster to action in a match. Reducing the in play delay means courtsiders can get their trades in quicker, but also the same applies to remote traders. I swing trade anyway so don't see this as a big issue for me.

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Kai
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Wed Jan 29, 2020 1:52 pm

sniffer66 wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 1:49 pm
I swing trade anyway so don't see this as a big issue for me.
Key takeaway for me personally.

Archery1969
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Wed Jan 29, 2020 2:18 pm

An interesting article from 2015, which obviously is out of date now but gives you an insight into what they have been doing for years.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-32402945

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Euler
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Wed Jan 29, 2020 2:21 pm

If you put your cynical hat on for a few seconds.

Allowing a small delay to a few courtsiders who pay high rates of PC would allow Betfair to offer very efficient inplay markets and pricing. This makes difficult for others to gain a foothold. If they lower their delay they will get picked off. So allowing smart money to hoover between points.

I'm sure I and many others don't put positions in during play, preferring to wait for moments when we can't get picked off.

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Kai
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Wed Jan 29, 2020 2:50 pm

Euler wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 2:21 pm
I'm sure I and many others don't put positions in during play, preferring to wait for moments when we can't get picked off.
Again, I think that's key and should be the basis for a good trading approach on tennis.

Why even pick a fight with courtsiders when all you can do is lose in the end. I understand taking the path of least resistance but find it ironic that people can go to extreme lengths just to learn how to cheat (like the courtsiders), investing thousands of hours into such things seems no problem, but investing some of those hours in developing genuine trading skills suddenly becomes a huge issue. Working hard does not mean you're working smart.

spreadbetting
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Wed Jan 29, 2020 3:10 pm

sniffer66 wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 1:49 pm


This is what I was trying to get my head around - though I've been up all night so not 100% on the ball.

Coutsiders have an advantage due to to being able to react faster to action in a match. Reducing the in play delay means courtsiders can get their trades in quicker, but also the same applies to remote traders. I swing trade anyway so don't see this as a big issue for me.
Except those remote traders are seeing the action well after it's occurred where the courstsiders see it happen live. By your reckoning no delay would suit all if you want it reduced.

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