US Presidential Election 2016

Betfair trading & Punting on politics. Be aware there is a lot of off topic discussion in this group centred on Political views.
Post Reply
User avatar
ShaunWhite
Posts: 9731
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:42 am

Crazyskier wrote:
LeTiss 4pm wrote:
Political Correctness is to blame for everything I hate in the modern world. Clearly, I'm not alone
I'm with ya! Can't stand the hand-wringing liberal nutters that think Blighty should be the world's dustbin and who love to take offence of behalf of minority groups! Yes Gary Lineker and Greg Rutherford - Im looking at you!

You know it is possible to eshew political correctness without losing your humanity.
It's fair enough to oppose the world as it is, but why does it always come with so much vitriol?
User avatar
workpeter
Posts: 165
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2016 8:29 pm

Euler wrote:Let's face it Clinton was a weak contender. OK she had experience, but was a redneck going to vote for her? Democrats put history and a political dynasty before an electable candidate. She looked Ill for most the campaign and wouldn't stand much of a chance against Putin.
2 predictions

1) Russia and US ties become much stronger. Sanctions will be dropped, the nato russia tension will evaporate and trades deals will be brokered. Trump has positioned himself nicely so that both him and Putin will be seen favourable as this plays out. Very smart.

2) Trump will come after Clinton hard. He needs to make an example of her so people think he is "draining the swamp".
User avatar
ShaunWhite
Posts: 9731
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:42 am

workpeter wrote:
predictions

1) The nato russia tension will evaporate
? Trump has said on may occasions that he wants to distance himself from Nato. Nato without the US becomes a toothless lion. Putin will then gain the confidence to apply further pressure on Latvia, Estonia, Belarus and Ukraine. In fact he's already carrying out manouvers in that area.

Trump also wants less involvement in the Middle East, leaving Russia as the prime mover in the region.

I'm reluctant to make predictions, but I really don't see how you can say that what's left of Nato and Russia can become best buddies when Trump has already said he's willing to renege on Article 5 of the North Atlantic treaty which requires member states to come to the aid of another member state subject to an armed attack.
User avatar
workpeter
Posts: 165
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2016 8:29 pm

ShaunWhite wrote:
workpeter wrote:
predictions

1) The nato russia tension will evaporate
? Trump has said on may occasions that he wants to distance himself from Nato. Nato without the US becomes a toothless lion. Putin will then gain the confidence to apply further pressure on Latvia, Estonia, Belarus and Ukraine. In fact he's already carrying out manouvers in that area.

Trump also wants less involvement in the Middle East, leaving Russia as the prime mover in the region.

I'm reluctant to make predictions, but I really don't see how you can say that what's left of Nato and Russia can become best buddies when Trump has already said he's willing to renege on Article 5 of the North Atlantic treaty which requires member states to come to the aid of another member state subject to an armed attack.
The build up is a show of force on both sides but neither side want (or benefit) from an escalation. When you analyse russian politics its very important to them to be seen as strong. Likewiss for Obama administration. Trump quite brilliantly promised increasing Americas military strengh and offering to work with russians; and the american people bought it. Now both countries can back down without losing face. And Nato like always will just do as america does.
User avatar
Crazyskier
Posts: 1166
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2016 6:36 pm

ShaunWhite wrote:
Crazyskier wrote:
LeTiss 4pm wrote:
Political Correctness is to blame for everything I hate in the modern world. Clearly, I'm not alone
I'm with ya! Can't stand the hand-wringing liberal nutters that think Blighty should be the world's dustbin and who love to take offence of behalf of minority groups! Yes Gary Lineker and Greg Rutherford - Im looking at you!

You know it is possible to eshew political correctness without losing your humanity.
It's fair enough to oppose the world as it is, but why does it always come with so much vitriol?
Because there are so many people just looking for a chance to brand anyone with opposing viewpoints as racists, bigots and (insert minority group here) phobes...

We live in a democracy where the needs, wants and desires of the vocal few must never outweigh those of the silent majority!
User avatar
ShaunWhite
Posts: 9731
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:42 am

Crazyskier wrote:
We live in a democracy where the needs, wants and desires of the vocal few must never outweigh those of the silent majority!
I agree to a point Crazyskier but given the outcomes on offer lately, I preferred the silent majority when they were silent. ;)

The (other) problem with democracy is that so few people turn out to vote. There's never been an election or referendum where 50%+ of the country voted for the proposal that's on the table (unless any political geeks out there can correct me).

I just hope everyone can get back to being dignified and friendly (British values?). Not just with 'our own kind' but with everybody.
User avatar
Naffman
Posts: 5636
Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2013 5:46 am

Would think Australia would be above 50%, given you get a fine if you don't turn up :lol: But I don't have the stats :)
User avatar
gazuty
Posts: 2547
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2011 11:03 am
Location: Green land :)

Naffman wrote:Would think Australia would be above 50%, given you get a fine if you don't turn up :lol: But I don't have the stats :)
Over 90% in Australia.

Although the hand wringing in this article would have you think crisis http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/ ... qnij2.html
User avatar
Euler
Posts: 24801
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:39 pm
Location: Bet Angel HQ

What happens next: -

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tobias-st ... 79774.html

I agree with the general thrust. In 2004 somebody I know forecast 2008 and then said that will lead to a rise in the right wing isolationist policies and probably a war somewhere. With the West Weakened, it would probably come from expansionism from Russia or China. He has read it like a book so far!!
User avatar
ShaunWhite
Posts: 9731
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:42 am

Naffman wrote:Would think Australia would be above 50%, given you get a fine if you don't turn up :lol: But I don't have the stats :)
I should have clarified that our version of democracy has never delivered over 50%. The Aussie system should be implemented here, or the no-shows should be taken as a vote for the status quo if it's on the ticket.
User avatar
LeTiss
Posts: 5386
Joined: Fri May 08, 2009 6:04 pm

Euler wrote:What happens next: -

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tobias-st ... 79774.html

I agree with the general thrust. In 2004 somebody I know forecast 2008 and then said that will lead to a rise in the right wing isolationist policies and probably a war somewhere. With the West Weakened, it would probably come from expansionism from Russia or China. He has read it like a book so far!!
What this article fails to acknowledge though, is Hitler connected with German people, because like him, they were bloody angry!

The lessons to be learned, is not that we are currently going down the wrong path. The lessons to learn is that when a growing number become disillusioned by the establishment, you are not going to shut them up with mainstream, liberal bullshit. These people want change!

Of course, a major reason why war may happen is because there's virtually nobody alive who truly remembers the horrors of the last one. Just reading about the horrors in a book doesn't resonate with young people.
The west has become multi-cultural, and that multiculturalism is constantly being forced down people's throats, and are then being gagged from complaining. That inspires anger, so if there is another war, all Western governments and Liberal minded people will ultimately be to blame for it
User avatar
Euler
Posts: 24801
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:39 pm
Location: Bet Angel HQ

LeTiss 4pm wrote:The west has become multi-cultural, and that multiculturalism is constantly being forced down people's throats
To prevent the rise of nationalism and war. But I'm resigned to the fact history repeats and people never learn. China and Russia, perhaps others will smell an opportunity here I'm pretty sure.

The trigger wasn't actually multiculturalism really, it was the financial crash that led to those tensions coming to the fore. Prior to that it wasn't really consider a problem.
User avatar
Euler
Posts: 24801
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:39 pm
Location: Bet Angel HQ

Ultimately the governments didn't punish the culprits enough. Should have slaughtered the financial institutions, but they let them become too strong and nobody got punished for raping the ordinary folk who are now paying the price of that. That's where the tensions have come from.
User avatar
LeTiss
Posts: 5386
Joined: Fri May 08, 2009 6:04 pm

Euler wrote:
LeTiss 4pm wrote:The west has become multi-cultural, and that multiculturalism is constantly being forced down people's throats
To prevent the rise of nationalism and war. But I'm resigned to the fact history repeats and people never learn. China and Russia, perhaps others will smell an opportunity here I'm pretty sure.

The trigger wasn't actually multiculturalism really, it was the financial crash that led to those tensions coming to the fore. Prior to that it wasn't really consider a problem.
Well now we almost agree on something, because this is where I believe liberal minded governments have to take a large part of the blame. I have nothing against living in a multi-cultural society at all, but it's all about balance.

Where people are becoming angry, and ultimately anti-Islamic is because the balance has been tipped, due to western governments trying to avoid the war you predicted. There has been a forcing of people to accept Muslims, but not a forcing of Muslims to accept to a western lifestyle. That is where the anger started Peter, it just happen to coincide with the financial crash
User avatar
Euler
Posts: 24801
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:39 pm
Location: Bet Angel HQ

If I lived in another country I would do so on the basis that I accept their way of life and customs and would honor them. I can't imagine a situation where I would imagine I have the right to impose my view on my host.
Post Reply

Return to “Political betting & arguing”