BAMI - Bet Angel Market Import

Help improve Bet Angel.

Would you like to see BAMI incorporated into BA??

Yes, yes, yes. I've always wanted this included in BA
51
84%
No, I trade manually and can't see any benefit for me
7
11%
Not sure - but that's just me -always on the fence!!
3
5%
 
Total votes: 61
Deeppockets
Posts: 24
Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2009 8:16 pm

My YES vote has been logged, no problem there.
LinusP
Posts: 1871
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:45 pm

You need to speak to Betfair first, this is a response I got in May asking the same question:
Dear Liam,

Please find that we plan to update historical data licensing soon as we have taken your details to contact you when details of the scheme are completed.


Kind Regards,

Robert
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ShaunWhite
Posts: 9731
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:42 am

jimibt wrote: ...file standard with Fracsoft which would allow BA users to purchase historical market data from a 3rd party provider.
Wouldn't it be more commercially savvy for BA engage in a licencing agreement with BF directly as Fractsoft already do? Plus Fractsofts business is all about selling people ways to optimise strategies so might not want a partnership with another 'model testing' company. The crossover is simply too big and would limit their own product development to things BA don't do, and visa versa for BA. That isn't a good thing for their own potential uses of the historical data.

A licence for this functional use only (ie encrypted and not fully open to the end user) might be of interest to BF or might be cheaper than 'any use' data. The lawyers would know better than me if it might also slowdown and increase the costs for any competitor who was already poised and ready to go with the more openly available formats.

Removing any relationship issues with Fractsoft also removes all that messy old pie-slicing making it potentailly cheaper for the end user, if the full benefit were passed on.

A direct relationship with BF makes it easier to stay aligned with any changes BF make to core data too rather than being at the mercy of an intermediary who is either slow to conform, pushes the format in an undesirable direction, or goes belly up. If I want Bloomberg data I'd go to Bloomberg, not buy it repackaged by someone else. This seems to be a similar situation.

After all that waffle, it's not actually a feature I can see myself using much, but an interesting one none the less. If IF it could be integrated without messing with core BA too much. The devil is in the detail with these things, especially when it appears the team are committed to keeping BA as one core version stream, rather than branching to a separate sandbox version, lite version, app version etc etc. which would be a disaster.

:D That's probably the first posting I've made on a subject I fully understand, I wouldn't hold much store by some of the others I make on trading topics.
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ShaunWhite
Posts: 9731
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:42 am

Hobsom wrote: This could remove the licensing problem as the data would just be a mass of ambiguous odds data only.
Sadly not that easy Hobsom, it's still capture and use of the data. Peter would probably end up trading from inside Pentonville.
Hobsom
Posts: 34
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2015 8:01 pm

I'm sure they'd let him off. After all they're sending him xmas presents now :-)
I do obviously see your point though.

I would personally love to look at automation for other markets that I don't really understand as yet, from a trading perspective anyway, like football or tennis, and the BAMI could facilitate the creation and refinement of automated systems that may feel too time consuming to trial over weeks or months.
The automation learning curve may also become a little less steep and time consuming.
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jimibt
Posts: 3641
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2015 6:42 pm
Location: Narnia

in view of the recent spate of account restrictions, due to (potentially) excessive use of practice mode, I think the time has come to seriously review the approach suggested here. Not only would it prevent account restriction, it would bring additional revenue to BA whilst satisfying demand.
welshboy06
Posts: 165
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 2:06 pm

It would be good of we had an easy to use piece of software that can import the market streaming data BF offer. I know it's an expensive option but it will allow robust back testing for the average user.

This can be done using LinusP's Betfair lightweight API but not everyone on this forum is comfortable with Python or even programming at all
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Barnobee
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:06 pm

I have just voted, this would be a brilliant feature for many reasons.

Rich
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BetScalper
Posts: 1139
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2017 10:47 pm

Vote YES from me.
Korattt
Posts: 2405
Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2015 6:46 pm

yes from me because if possible I could test some automation without wasting an afternoon trying it when I could be trading, not all of us have the capacity to do both at the same time, testing & trading
spreadbetting
Posts: 3140
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:06 pm

No doubting it'd be a useful addition to the software but I'd be very surprised if it would be worth the effort for BA.

32 yes's over 2 years and probably most of those would drop out when faced with Betfair's current charges of £200 per month per sport for worthwhile data before you even consider BA's charges to recover the cost and ongoing cost of development.
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Euler
Posts: 24700
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:39 pm
Location: Bet Angel HQ

I'm not saying we wouldn't entertain it, but I think there are better solutions. But also, you could spend ages backtesting something only to find it never works when in live mode. That's my experience, there is no better tutor than the market itself.
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pdenoeud
Posts: 71
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2018 10:37 am

I am VERY interested by such feature, and I am ready to pay extra money for it. It could be offered as an extra plugin. People ineterested would pay for it.
To me, the key features are:
- possibility to play back a guardian on many events in the past
- possibility for the guardian to access current score in back testing mode
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jimibt
Posts: 3641
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2015 6:42 pm
Location: Narnia

funny to see this thread re-appearing every now and again. it does however seriuosly make me wonder how a certain piece of software, out there right now, is able to offer this functionality and at the same time, generate an income from it. we've heard many times that the licencing would make this feature restictive to implement. my question; how does this *other* software offering manage to make this feature available as i'm assuming it also stays inside the BF t&c's (plus it receives revenue as it is an additional extra).

i've heard the pros and cons about market participation etc changing the outcomes. however, for some strategies, being able to apply small changes in the rule, and replay across the market(s) is surely a huge plus, rather than having to wait until the next day and making changes on the fly that are always difficult to truly impact analyse.
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Euler
Posts: 24700
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:39 pm
Location: Bet Angel HQ

Current Betfair terms won't let us develop anything that accesses historic data without signing a data license agreement and that involves paying them a hefty fee upfront. The only useful data IMO, would be the pro data which would cost you £200 a month per sport, which is prohibitive to most I would think. That money would go straight to Betfair, we wouldn't get a penny in revenue for that. We are also not allowed to resell that data under the license agreement, so can't derive any additional revenue from that.

Of course, you can just pay that money to Betfair and do your own data analysis on it using tools you develop. I think that's probably a more viable option unless Betfair change terms.
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