Botty Challenges

Advanced automation available in Guardian - Chat with others and share files here.
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ShaunWhite
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mcgoo wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 1:07 pm
Question for the ''automa---trons' among us..I have seen some strange goings on with matched bets not being detected as matched (for 10 seconds or more even-which completely wrecks count numbers etc)
It's unlikely to be anything you'll have much control over. Occassionally BF does take a while to respond, even up to a minute. Unfortunately it's just one of those things and any system requiring comms needs to expect the unexpected. You just have to either code around it by keeping as much info stored locally as pos or accept it as one of those things.

Like most glitches, if you have enough of them they should balance out eventually. It's bearable in a BF bot, but imagine what it was like doing settlements, custody changes or swift/bacs transfers! There's no 'it'll balance out' when they bug out. :? 'Fortunately' I was doing all that when comms was two bean cans and a piece of string so I naturally assume the worst and code defensively. Thats' a good default positon for any automation actually, assume it won't work properly.
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mcgoo
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thanks for the replies folks-very thought provoking as always. Accepting worse case has settled my mind a bit :geek:
I have the time sync tool going and restrict refresh on. I am logging a fair amount but not so much as not to be able to read the logic. The switching between polling and streaming is something I'll try
I have to rules to place bets and 13 to manage the bet after placement :shock: :D Defensive coding is definitely the order of the day . I saw the bot recover from a 37% loss( before more defensive coding) and go back into profit over the next 4 races so I am hopeful.The last race last night made 14% on stake so fingers crossed.Thanks again :mrgreen: :ugeek:
Now if I can just get my tennis edge sorted :roll: :D
Edit: The subtleties are amazing...cue the unmatched bet time condition :D
sionascaig
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Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2015 9:38 am

Given that the betangel software can display the connection speeds with betfair, just wondering if in a future release they could be made available in automation conditions. This would allow you to send an alert, stop placing bets, attempt to close position. Would this help?
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mcgoo
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sionascaig wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 9:13 am
Given that the betangel software can display the connection speeds with betfair, just wondering if in a future release they could be made available in automation conditions. This would allow you to send an alert, stop placing bets, attempt to close position. Would this help?
I think it could-would be interesting to try anyway
I just found a fatal flaw in a legacy signal (from an older bot darn it :shock: :evil: ). Streamlined the rules a bit-down to 32 (I had drifted up to around 36) and reduced the logging noise a little. I just watched it make $1.11 (7 trades) on a pace market :mrgreen: . I noticed that if I edit the file too much while the bot is active, the clock starts sticking-at least that appears to be the correlation. Anyway-watching.It is very active..almost every market.Will see how we go
Edit: Just watched it lose 46c on a madly erratic pace market (6 trades) . Behaved like a thing of beauty though :D :ugeek:
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ShaunWhite
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sionascaig wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 9:13 am
Given that the betangel software can display the connection speeds with betfair, just wondering if in a future release they could be made available in automation conditions. This would allow you to send an alert, stop placing bets, attempt to close position. Would this help?
The problem isn't the connection speed it's the acknowledgement of bets being received or matched. Those messages can be delayed even if the stream is working perfectly. It's like the postman calling every day but you only get the flyers and not the letters.
LinusP
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ShaunWhite wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:05 pm
sionascaig wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 9:13 am
Given that the betangel software can display the connection speeds with betfair, just wondering if in a future release they could be made available in automation conditions. This would allow you to send an alert, stop placing bets, attempt to close position. Would this help?
The problem isn't the connection speed it's the acknowledgement of bets being received or matched. Those messages can be delayed even if the stream is working perfectly. It's like the postman calling every day but you only get the flyers and not the letters.
How often do you see this? As it isn’t ‘normal’, ignoring outages I have no issues from the API, especially from the stream it is very quick in match updates.
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ShaunWhite
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LinusP wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:51 pm
How often do you see this? As it isn’t ‘normal’, ignoring outages I have no issues from the API, especially from the stream it is very quick in match updates.
tbh I haven't seen it personally because I haven't gone live with my api stuff yet. It's just something i read in viewtopic.php?f=55&t=9319&p=107672&hilit=60#p107672
sionascaig
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ShaunWhite wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:20 pm
LinusP wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:51 pm
How often do you see this? As it isn’t ‘normal’, ignoring outages I have no issues from the API, especially from the stream it is very quick in match updates.
tbh I haven't seen it personally because I haven't gone live with my api stuff yet. It's just something i read in viewtopic.php?f=55&t=9319&p=107672&hilit=60#p107672
It was the "responsiveness of calls to betfair when retrieving bets / prices" number(s) that I was thinking about. For me it usually sits around 30 to 50 ms but can go over 3500 - which is when I usually start seeing issues and switch to polling (and then see the response speeds)...

I'm not directly connected to a modem so connections for me is a bit of a weak spot... In terms of frequency not seen it for a while but is usually associated with a post on the "issues with betfair" thread - maybe that would give an indication of frequency?

(thanks for the postman example Sean - didn't appreciate that)

Still sounds to me that access to the responsiveness numbers maybe worthwhile from an automation point of view though as if there is a significant delay do you not still want to know about it?
Adriaan
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Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:09 pm

PeterLe wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:44 am
Morning
Just a few thoughts...
On any bot, worthwhile looking a at the full bet history from your bet fair account (keep records even if yo make a subtle change). Extract to excel and analyse......then check to see if you had only placed the back bets or only placed the lay bets would you have been in profit? Can tell you a lot over the course of time
Also, if you do have to green up, only use the reverse setting..yes, you won't get everyone matched, but that will equal itself over time. Everytime you green at current odds, you are potentially throwing money away
Regards
Peter
Hi Peter,

I came accross your post and I have been experimenting with bots on football matches. I have used the reverse green up setting a few times. But when there's another goal my bet is removed and greening up won't work. When allowing the green up condition to fire more than once, my bot greens up multiple times.

Should I add another condition to my bot to prevent my bot from greening up multiple times?
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mcgoo
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Horse bot did better yesterday.Was $6 up at one point and I thought I was " off to the races"cough :shock: ;) ..then it dropped back to $1 overall over 69 markets. I found a glitch in the matrix though with my checkpoint match bets logic :geek: . It was hitting the checkpoint too soon and not cancelling unmatched bets like I planned. Cue unmatched bet time condition again.Amazing that it can run over that many markets and not get caned.Hopefully it continues to do better.Partial matches make for very defensive coding indeed. The possible scenarios hurt me head, but good fun. I am thinking about how to track a losing position...so no unmatched bets but where greening/off setting is unequal and a loss is increasing over time.Not sure if that is possible but will see how I go :ugeek:
sionascaig
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mcgoo wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:33 pm
Horse bot did better yesterday.Was $6 up at one point and I thought I was " off to the races"cough :shock: ;) ..then it dropped back to $1 overall over 69 markets. I found a glitch in the matrix though with my checkpoint match bets logic :geek: . It was hitting the checkpoint too soon and not cancelling unmatched bets like I planned. Cue unmatched bet time condition again.Amazing that it can run over that many markets and not get caned.Hopefully it continues to do better.Partial matches make for very defensive coding indeed. The possible scenarios hurt me head, but good fun. I am thinking about how to track a losing position...so no unmatched bets but where greening/off setting is unequal and a loss is increasing over time.Not sure if that is possible but will see how I go :ugeek:
Dallas posted an example bot a while back which used a time condition (and I think a signal) so that you don't automatically close a position due to a spike in price, i.e. the loss is temporary due to sudden change in price.... Maybe some ideas in that that you could use to track loss / profit.
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mcgoo
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sionascaig wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:49 am
mcgoo wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:33 pm
Horse bot did better yesterday.Was $6 up at one point and I thought I was " off to the races"cough :shock: ;) ..then it dropped back to $1 overall over 69 markets. I found a glitch in the matrix though with my checkpoint match bets logic :geek: . It was hitting the checkpoint too soon and not cancelling unmatched bets like I planned. Cue unmatched bet time condition again.Amazing that it can run over that many markets and not get caned.Hopefully it continues to do better.Partial matches make for very defensive coding indeed. The possible scenarios hurt me head, but good fun. I am thinking about how to track a losing position...so no unmatched bets but where greening/off setting is unequal and a loss is increasing over time.Not sure if that is possible but will see how I go :ugeek:
Dallas posted an example bot a while back which used a time condition (and I think a signal) so that you don't automatically close a position due to a spike in price, i.e. the loss is temporary due to sudden change in price.... Maybe some ideas in that that you could use to track loss / profit.
Thanks for that-yes I recall.Will check it out. Was watching today and suddenly the bot stopped managing the bet properly.Not sure why but saw delayed clock entries in the log file..but it seemed to fail at covering the stop loss-which is a 'manual' (vs automatic offset)bet so am a little non-plussed right now.Am restarting the machine..non stop challenges :ugeek:

Edit: Found 2 glitches in the matrix :) and have adjusted accordingly. Seems to work better now but it's like herding cats ;) :ugeek: :ugeek:
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mcgoo
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B**ger me I am still dealing with 2 closing bets placed in 1 second that stuffs profit. It is improving but my word cats herd etc :shock: :? :? :? Trying yet another defensive position :evil: :evil: :evil: :ugeek: :ugeek:
foxwood
Posts: 390
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:54 pm

mcgoo wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 10:15 am
B**ger me I am still dealing with 2 closing bets placed in 1 second that stuffs profit. It is improving but my word cats herd etc :shock: :? :? :? Trying yet another defensive position :evil: :evil: :evil: :ugeek: :ugeek:
I used to run a "stop going in play" rule that suffered from that now and again - outstanding bet matched just as trying to green.

Solved it by running a CancelAll once only at 15secs and a greenAll at 13secs - never failed after that - maybe lost a couple of ticks on the green but better than hitting that extra bet.

Not sure how you would do that on making your own stop loss when pl < -£n. Maybe something like a rule to Cancel and also set a "GreenNow" signal to be actioned later on the next Guardian cycle by some other rule ?
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mcgoo
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foxwood wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 3:15 pm
mcgoo wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 10:15 am
B**ger me I am still dealing with 2 closing bets placed in 1 second that stuffs profit. It is improving but my word cats herd etc :shock: :? :? :? Trying yet another defensive position :evil: :evil: :evil: :ugeek: :ugeek:
I used to run a "stop going in play" rule that suffered from that now and again - outstanding bet matched just as trying to green.

Solved it by running a CancelAll once only at 15secs and a greenAll at 13secs - never failed after that - maybe lost a couple of ticks on the green but better than hitting that extra bet.

Not sure how you would do that on making your own stop loss when pl < -£n. Maybe something like a rule to Cancel and also set a "GreenNow" signal to be actioned later on the next Guardian cycle by some other rule ?
Thanks for those comments. I had a rule that was dealing with greening at reverse prices vs current price, a rule to deal with partial matches and a checkpoint rule with partial matches and full matches in scope.I made a change that so far looks good but wow the brain got shocked like an over-trained pectoral ;) Will see how I go but as you say making your own stop loss is not trivial -especially when it needs to be scalable. :ugeek:

Edit: Going better so far but that 1.66 loss was due to another "2 fer" bet :roll: ..I think I am onto it though. Will see if things come out in the wash before changing.Said it before: what a time to be alive :D :shock: :ugeek: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: Edit 1.5: Didn't come out in wash.Added a matrix glitch condition.c how we go :ugeek:
Edit 2: Of course what do you do when your opening bet has a fill or kill of 10 secs and after a partial match-then the opposing bet is placed with the correct stake to offset the opening trade- the balance of the opening bet gets matched 17 seconds after opening :shock: :? ...mmm weirdness. There is a green all rule in my future.Man this is full on :o :shock: :)
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