I have literally lost thousands of pounds trying to crack pre race trading. I see a red, think oh I'll take it in play and catch up and BOOM the horse wins. I've done it more times than I care to remember so I know the likelihood I'll bust out but still I do it and I don't get why. I've thought and thought about it but still I lay a horse in the hope of easy money and I end up bust, we're talking 10k here.
I did casino while racing was off and joined a site to learn that and literally stick to the instructions by the letter. I could be £20 on an offer but I can walk away from that quite easily and have never once done "just another spin" and have earned over 2k since March. So I have the mindset for that so don't understand why I don't with racing.
Maybe I should just give up.......
Why do I keep going inplay?
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ShaunWhite
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There's no easy fix other than accepting that losing is part of the game. Embrace the loss, be glad you cut it short and think that's just another one out of the way. A 'good' loss should be as satisfying as a good win, it's a thing to be pleased with rather than irritated by.
But I think there's a deeper issue of understanding, it's a long game not about winning each day or even each month. Take casino games, do really think they can be beaten long term, no? It's poor value betting and designed to keep people interested and gradually empty their pockets. Casinos are just light entertainment and not a serious proposition, you're basically just playing a version of bingo and failing for the naff advertising imagery.
The only way to profit from trading is for your avg loss to be smaller than your average win. That's it. No other secret. And unless you're a genius with a 100% strike rate then losses WILL happen but entirely its your choice about how damaging they are.
You could look at things like background automation to stop your losses or some other trickery but the only answer I'm afraid is to just get a grip, take it serious, and stop doing all the things you know don't work like going inplay. If you absolutely must go inplay then for heavens sake scale out of your trade sized stake and revert to a betting stake. You don't need to let £200 ride to try and claw back a £20 trading loss. Exit the £200 trade and just have £10 on...... And if you keep accurate stats you'll see these £10 claw back bets earn you a gross nothing and are pointless, but at least you'll last long enough to find out.
... How long have you been trading? You can't expect to be a consistently profitable in less than a year or two. The idea is to just keep losing less than you did last month until the loss becomes a profit.
But I think there's a deeper issue of understanding, it's a long game not about winning each day or even each month. Take casino games, do really think they can be beaten long term, no? It's poor value betting and designed to keep people interested and gradually empty their pockets. Casinos are just light entertainment and not a serious proposition, you're basically just playing a version of bingo and failing for the naff advertising imagery.
The only way to profit from trading is for your avg loss to be smaller than your average win. That's it. No other secret. And unless you're a genius with a 100% strike rate then losses WILL happen but entirely its your choice about how damaging they are.
You could look at things like background automation to stop your losses or some other trickery but the only answer I'm afraid is to just get a grip, take it serious, and stop doing all the things you know don't work like going inplay. If you absolutely must go inplay then for heavens sake scale out of your trade sized stake and revert to a betting stake. You don't need to let £200 ride to try and claw back a £20 trading loss. Exit the £200 trade and just have £10 on...... And if you keep accurate stats you'll see these £10 claw back bets earn you a gross nothing and are pointless, but at least you'll last long enough to find out.
... How long have you been trading? You can't expect to be a consistently profitable in less than a year or two. The idea is to just keep losing less than you did last month until the loss becomes a profit.
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smallplayer
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ShaunWhite wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 5:06 pmThere's no easy fix other than accepting that losing is part of the game. Embrace the loss, be glad you cut it short and think that's just another one out of the way. A 'good' loss should be as satisfying as a good win, it's a thing to be pleased with rather than irritated by.
very well put shaun..took me 8k races to learn that
everything Shaun as said is true but you need to consider this. You may not have the required wiring in your brain for trading horse racing (probably greyhounds too). you may not be cut out for it.
if you really have lost thousands of pounds trying to crack horse racing then the evidence would seem to be overwhelming that you are not cut out for it.
its a not a dig by the way, you need to stop trading horse racing , if you cant then get help because your probably lose er lot more if you carry on.
if you really have lost thousands of pounds trying to crack horse racing then the evidence would seem to be overwhelming that you are not cut out for it.
its a not a dig by the way, you need to stop trading horse racing , if you cant then get help because your probably lose er lot more if you carry on.
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Crazyskier
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You sound like me in the early days. Auto saved me.I now feel pride in a small loss, knowing that I can't go broke from letting stuff go in-play anymore.
I'd recommend you do one thing:
Never, EVER make an entry into the market without knowing a FIXED (utterly non-negotiable) exit point, whether that point is profit or loss (emphasis on the loss).
Experienced guys hereabouts can wing it because they have the skills. You my friend, like me, do not. So choose the exit point, both good and bad BEFORE you enter the market.
Good Luck
CS
While I think you have a point about the correct wiring of the brain, I don't believe that anyone should just call it a day, especially if they're reaching out for some advice. I think the OP should switch to practice mode for a while and think very hard about what you have mentioned here about the wiring of the brain.to75ne wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:09 pmeverything Shaun as said is true but you need to consider this. You may not have the required wiring in your brain for trading horse racing (probably greyhounds too). you may not be cut out for it.
if you really have lost thousands of pounds trying to crack horse racing then the evidence would seem to be overwhelming that you are not cut out for it.
its a not a dig by the way, you need to stop trading horse racing , if you cant then get help because your probably lose er lot more if you carry on.
I think the wiring of the brain is a huge part of manual trading, & most people are being caught out by randomness. They see a tonne of YouTube videos showing how to trade the markets, they have a moment like "ah, yeah that makes perfect sense" then go into the markets with a new found sense of belief and get totally beat up and end up in the mode of "ah screw it, i'll take it in-play"
I remember I would see Peter deploy a strategy in one of his videos with a perfectly detailed explanation of what he's doing, I would try and replicate it when trading and get beat black and blue... what I was doing was deploying it to markets that it didn't belong, do this over and over with different strategies (from multiple people) in random markets and before long you have no idea what the hell you're doing, people literally trade themselves to insanity.
Going through Peter's YouTube channel could be described like going to IKEA, walking through the show room seeing hundreds of ready built pieces of furniture, you can picture in your mind exactly where in your house that lovely cabinet will go, that great looking set of drawers will go etc... you make the decision to go with the set of drawers, get them home with the same image still in your mind only to unpack the box and realize that there is a whole lot more to do before that set of drawers becomes what you imagined. What most people do is just throw the flat pack at every market and expect it to work.
You have to get all your pieces in place (I think Peter has given the puzzle analogy before) then with a methodical approach, start to put all of the pieces together, at first it's just a pile of pieces sprawled across the floor but if you had built that same set of drawers a few times, your mind would have started to remember the sequence that the pieces go together, do it enough times and it's almost like your mind doesn't even think about the sequence at all, it all seems automatic.
How the hell does any of this have anything to do with not going in-play.... well, that is also a learned behavior and if your process has become automatic (mentally) then surely the mind will know when there is a piece of the puzzle missing and your system 1 is hard wired to avoid danger at all costs, eventually with the correct strategies in the correct markets, stopping out of a trade that isn't working should become a natural reaction, done subconsciously.
I fully encourage the OP to think long and hard about what piece of furniture they want in their house, where they want it and how they plan to build it. Then build that same piece of furniture over and over (in practice mode) until it's a natural behavior. Once they have done this then go back to IKEA, find another piece of furniture and repeat the process, Slowly start to move over to real money once they have enough belief in their furniture building skills.
That's my 50 pence worth anyway.
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ShaunWhite
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I think a big issue is that people want to be the next Peter without realising there's a whole world of trading outside of trading the favourite on pre-race horse market (I know he does way more than that, but that's what people latch onto because he makes it look so effortless) I found success as soon as I stopped doing what he does. The fav on pre race horses must be the toughest most competitive market there is, it's like the yellow snow of the trading world.
I've done the same thing in the past when I started learning to pre race trade, I'd take it in play just to try and get back to scratch, or let it run to try and get a bit of green we've all been there.
After losing you realise that letting a trade run in play to try and get £5 or something back, but you could potentially lose £100 is just gambling and ridiculous from a risk vs reward perspective. Look at it like this, you'll have plenty of safe opportunities to get that £5 back and could easily get it back on the next race, but how long will it take to get the £100 back? and what will it do to your mentality? probably put you in a gambling chase mode.
If you're trying to crack pre race trading just STICK to pre race trading and forget about in play. Just close the position before the off or get a bot to do it. Honestly if you do it many times and keep doing it and have a gambling mentality then trading is not for you.
Pre race trading is hard it can take years to understand and even when you have a good understanding of the markets, you still have to be disciplined.
Before you click that button to enter a trade you need to know where you are going to take your profit or scale out the position if it goes your way, and where you are going to exit your position if it goes against you.
Has the previous race finished? is the money flowing in the market? look at the overall trends on the horses at the top of the market. Are the other horses drifting steaming correlated? what's going to help or hurt my position. All of this can change in seconds and that's why you need to have a plan ready before you enter.
There's a big list a things to think about before entering a trade you're not just clicking a button and hoping it goes your way, and if you not thinking about the whole market then you'll never progress.
Take notes, record your trades. Use small stakes and scale out straight away until you get a better understand of the markets.
Just have a plan, stick to pre race stay disciplined and the profits will come.
After losing you realise that letting a trade run in play to try and get £5 or something back, but you could potentially lose £100 is just gambling and ridiculous from a risk vs reward perspective. Look at it like this, you'll have plenty of safe opportunities to get that £5 back and could easily get it back on the next race, but how long will it take to get the £100 back? and what will it do to your mentality? probably put you in a gambling chase mode.
If you're trying to crack pre race trading just STICK to pre race trading and forget about in play. Just close the position before the off or get a bot to do it. Honestly if you do it many times and keep doing it and have a gambling mentality then trading is not for you.
Pre race trading is hard it can take years to understand and even when you have a good understanding of the markets, you still have to be disciplined.
Before you click that button to enter a trade you need to know where you are going to take your profit or scale out the position if it goes your way, and where you are going to exit your position if it goes against you.
Has the previous race finished? is the money flowing in the market? look at the overall trends on the horses at the top of the market. Are the other horses drifting steaming correlated? what's going to help or hurt my position. All of this can change in seconds and that's why you need to have a plan ready before you enter.
There's a big list a things to think about before entering a trade you're not just clicking a button and hoping it goes your way, and if you not thinking about the whole market then you'll never progress.
Take notes, record your trades. Use small stakes and scale out straight away until you get a better understand of the markets.
Just have a plan, stick to pre race stay disciplined and the profits will come.
It's quite difficult to stop things you've been repeating. I can relate it to rewiring my mum's house and for weeks I was putting my hand where the light switch used to be to turn on the lights.
The best advice I can give is to try and understand, condition yourself to realise, that you cannot possibly win long-term on roulette or any game of pure chance. Because that's exactly what going in-play is. You end up with potential profits and liabilities on runners where you have no reason to think they're value - you got to that situation unwittingly. But if greening-up across the field would give you a red book you've got an overround against you just like roulette with an exessive liability that you never intended. You cannot possibly succeed as a trader until you abandon hoping for luck when things go wrong.
Sorry I haven't had time to read the whole thread, I'm trading US and I almost let it go in-play.
The best advice I can give is to try and understand, condition yourself to realise, that you cannot possibly win long-term on roulette or any game of pure chance. Because that's exactly what going in-play is. You end up with potential profits and liabilities on runners where you have no reason to think they're value - you got to that situation unwittingly. But if greening-up across the field would give you a red book you've got an overround against you just like roulette with an exessive liability that you never intended. You cannot possibly succeed as a trader until you abandon hoping for luck when things go wrong.
Sorry I haven't had time to read the whole thread, I'm trading US and I almost let it go in-play.
“Maybe I should just give up.......” yes he was reaching out for advice, and I advisedjamesg46 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:17 pmWhile I think you have a point about the correct wiring of the brain, I don't believe that anyone should just call it a day, especially if they're reaching out for some advice. I think the OP should switch to practice mode for a while and think very hard about what you have mentioned here about the wiring of the brain.to75ne wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:09 pmeverything Shaun as said is true but you need to consider this. You may not have the required wiring in your brain for trading horse racing (probably greyhounds too). you may not be cut out for it.
if you really have lost thousands of pounds trying to crack horse racing then the evidence would seem to be overwhelming that you are not cut out for it.
its a not a dig by the way, you need to stop trading horse racing , if you cant then get help because your probably lose er lot more if you carry on.
Switching to practice mode will teach him nothing of use as he has an emotional problem. Practice mode is good for learning the mechanics of trading (so to speak) but useless for an emotional problem – taking a loss.
Practice mode is not real, it takes the emotional element of trading away, hence no good for emotional problems.
“blah blah blah but still I lay a horse in the hope of easy money and I end up bust, we're talking 10k here”
When do you think he should realise he is a useless manual horse racing trader? and when would you advise him to knock it on the head? when he is down 15 large, 20 large, 30 large or higher?
If you cant cut out and take a hit and move on, no matter how many books, and utube vids, words of encouragement on threads like this (no doubt meant with all good intentions ), what some financial market guru spouts, someones data base of 2000 races and associated xcel sheets state and so on, you will fail if you cant take a loss, its that simple.
in short he cant like so many others adequately control his emotions, and that is why he ( and others) cant effectively trade.
Just caught up with this thread. I agree with to75ne's comments and many others, but the question that hasn't been raised (apologies if I've missed it) is why gamble thousands of pounds trying to crack trading when you could do what I and many other traders did, and deposit £100 or whatever you can afford, and trade small stakes?trb10 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 3:29 pmI have literally lost thousands of pounds trying to crack pre race trading. I see a red, think oh I'll take it in play and catch up and BOOM the horse wins. I've done it more times than I care to remember so I know the likelihood I'll bust out but still I do it and I don't get why. I've thought and thought about it but still I lay a horse in the hope of easy money and I end up bust, we're talking 10k here.
I did casino while racing was off and joined a site to learn that and literally stick to the instructions by the letter. I could be £20 on an offer but I can walk away from that quite easily and have never once done "just another spin" and have earned over 2k since March. So I have the mindset for that so don't understand why I don't with racing.
Maybe I should just give up.......
You can blow a £100 bank ten times over yet gain a lot of experience and if you ever crack trading you can turn a £100 into £5K, and it all becomes irrelevant.
The bottom line is that you'll never make money trading unless you can develop a skill for trading. But even if you do develop the skill, you still won't make anything unless you've mastered the psychology and discipline of trading. Even if you achieve that, you're still destined for disaster unless you understand money management, and perhaps that's the most crucial element.
You need to invest a small amount of money and treat the game as a hobby until you're consistently profitable. If you feel compelled to go in big and invest thousands before you've even started making money then I'd go along with to75ne and consider whether you're cut out for trading.