Kai wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:01 amMake what?wearthefoxhat wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:58 amYou probably make that easily in a week nowadays...(automation/semi-automation)
Isn't he trading full manual?
I meant you (Kai)
Kai wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:01 amMake what?wearthefoxhat wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:58 amYou probably make that easily in a week nowadays...(automation/semi-automation)
Isn't he trading full manual?
Thereabouts maybe I don't mind PMing you my 3 month P&L shortly, but not using any automation yet, my friend is still the guinea pig until I get over my irrational fears about autowearthefoxhat wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:39 amKai wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:01 amMake what?wearthefoxhat wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:58 amYou probably make that easily in a week nowadays...(automation/semi-automation)
Isn't he trading full manual?
I meant you (Kai)
reminds me of the great episode from 'Allo 'Allo (The Funeral) https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6sg3h6spreadbetting wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:38 amThink the last thing Jimbo wants to be is some kind of Nancy, he'd be chased off the forum.
Yep, there's an inherent need in all of us to see others succeed/try to succeed and try to help in our own way.Kai wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:01 amThereabouts maybe I don't mind PMing you my 3 month P&L shortly, but not using any automation yet, my friend is still the guinea pig until I get over my irrational fears about auto
But my point is, I think Mr Goat is doing as well as can be expected at this point, as long as he's collecting valuable market experience and actively working on important aspects of trading (like managing losses) I think he's moving in the right direction.
Imagine if he were to crack it eventually, with the help of the forum, what a triumph that would be, and a lift for everyone, including the lurkers Bet Angel subscriptions would be selling like candy as well, there can never be enough success stories.
No worries, already sent it, included a fresh Psychoff 3month P&L as well just for fun, you may find it a bit more interestingwearthefoxhat wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:25 amYep, there's an inherent need in all of us to see others succeed/try to succeed and try to help in our own way.
Some of the lurkers will want this too, but maybe have nothing to add, as a lot of ground has already been covered in the thread already. (maybe not the psychopath types)
No need to send any Pnl's by PM, my spidey senses already feel you know the time of day.
It would be interesting to hear how many markets it usually takes manual pre-off traders, it is something that I rarely see discussed but seem to remember a poll on here where the majority had voted it took 10,000+ markets. From the very little profitable traders I have heard of they said it took them around 2-3 years.
I'll just throw a question out there for the experienced guys, if you've done 10,000 markets but over 10 years (say), then how valid is that if markets change every year or so...?alexmr2 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:41 pmIt would be interesting to hear how many markets it usually takes manual pre-off traders, it is something that I rarely see discussed but seem to remember a poll on here where the majority had voted it took 10,000+ markets. From the very little profitable traders I have heard of they said it took them around 2-3 years.
I have traded around 10,000 races over the last 2 years (almost every day) and I still struggle to breakeven at the end of the week, even for me to get to lifetime breakeven would take a very long time. Mostly it is emotions holding me back after something goes wrong I can lose a few days profit from the classic mistakes of overstaking and chasing losses.
I also often wonder if nowadays it is harder to make it in pre-off because there are more traders with more experience (and more bots). I also have heard that post-covid markets without the spectators etc. are worse than usual but I'm not sure if that means harder to read or just lower liquidity?
I'm guessing that if most traders actually knew how long it was gonna take at the start, then a lot of them would have thought, "nah, stuff that"alexmr2 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:41 pmIt would be interesting to hear how many markets it usually takes manual pre-off traders, it is something that I rarely see discussed but seem to remember a poll on here where the majority had voted it took 10,000+ markets. From the very little profitable traders I have heard of they said it took them around 2-3 years.
I have traded around 10,000 races over the last 2 years (almost every day) and I still struggle to breakeven at the end of the week, even for me to get to lifetime breakeven would take a very long time. Mostly it is emotions holding me back after something goes wrong I can lose a few days profit from the classic mistakes of overstaking and chasing losses.
I also often wonder if nowadays it is harder to make it in pre-off because there are more traders with more experience (and more bots). I also have heard that post-covid markets without the spectators etc. are worse than usual but I'm not sure if that means harder to read or just lower liquidity?
The learned behaviour over that time is the appropriate adaptability.goat68 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:04 pmI'll just throw a question out there for the experienced guys, if you've done 10,000 markets but over 10 years (say), then how valid is that if markets change every year or so...?
Surely a market behaviour learned 5+ years ago is no where near as valid as one learned in the last year?
Just to set everyone's expectations, if around Xmas time I don't seem to have made at least some identifiable progress for me, then I will throw in the towel at that point, as I've got better things to do if this is never going to work out for me. So that's around 2,000 markets probably.smallplayer wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:08 pmI'm guessing that if most traders actually knew how long it was gonna take at the start, then a lot of them would have thought, "nah, stuff that"alexmr2 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:41 pmIt would be interesting to hear how many markets it usually takes manual pre-off traders, it is something that I rarely see discussed but seem to remember a poll on here where the majority had voted it took 10,000+ markets. From the very little profitable traders I have heard of they said it took them around 2-3 years.
I have traded around 10,000 races over the last 2 years (almost every day) and I still struggle to breakeven at the end of the week, even for me to get to lifetime breakeven would take a very long time. Mostly it is emotions holding me back after something goes wrong I can lose a few days profit from the classic mistakes of overstaking and chasing losses.
I also often wonder if nowadays it is harder to make it in pre-off because there are more traders with more experience (and more bots). I also have heard that post-covid markets without the spectators etc. are worse than usual but I'm not sure if that means harder to read or just lower liquidity?
Btw, I am 8.5k races in and 71 weeks spent and I am just at small consistent profit stage. I cannot scale up much it seems for fear of implosion
Also, I see no difference in pre and post covid tbh
Have you defined " some identifiable progress"?goat68 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:53 amJust to set everyone's expectations, if around Xmas time I don't seem to have made at least some identifiable progress for me, then I will throw in the towel at that point, as I've got better things to do if this is never going to work out for me. So that's around 2,000 markets probably.
I know some of you will say 2,000 is not enough, well then so be it, it's definitely not worth the return of investment in what would be at least 2-3 years of torture!!!
So yes, a variety of things, but as ever with this game, it's a bit subjective! :Anbell wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:30 amHave you defined " some identifiable progress"?goat68 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:53 amJust to set everyone's expectations, if around Xmas time I don't seem to have made at least some identifiable progress for me, then I will throw in the towel at that point, as I've got better things to do if this is never going to work out for me. So that's around 2,000 markets probably.
I know some of you will say 2,000 is not enough, well then so be it, it's definitely not worth the return of investment in what would be at least 2-3 years of torture!!!
This forum will be much poorer without all the advice you've been given.
A bit early to go down that rabbit hole I think.goat68 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:53 amJust to set everyone's expectations, if around Xmas time I don't seem to have made at least some identifiable progress for me, then I will throw in the towel at that point, as I've got better things to do if this is never going to work out for me. So that's around 2,000 markets probably.
I know some of you will say 2,000 is not enough, well then so be it, it's definitely not worth the return of investment in what would be at least 2-3 years of torture!!!