General discussion : Betfair Non Runners

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Banthorpe
Posts: 53
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 1:40 pm

Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:57 pm

Hiya All

I have backed a few runners recently where there have been non runners and still at a loss to work out How betfair seem to think that there non runner policy is fair not that it makes any difference to Betfair but thought I would bring the point up for discussion

Today I backed a Horse in the Salisbury 16-00 I had £10 on at 1.5 Giving a £15 return if the Horse won. The 2nd fav was taken out trading at a price of around 5 or 4/1 at the time leavng a 20% deduction but Betfair take the 20% off the Total potential returns including your stake so 20% off £15 making a £3 deduction so potential returns now of £12 So really from 1.5 to 1.2 Which is not a 20% deduction in winnings as they include my stake.

Bookmakers have a smilar rule 4 but only take the deduction off potential winnings So a 4/1 shot being withdrawn would have a 20p rule 4 but only off winnings So 20p in the pound off a £5 winnng would result in £1 off the £5 plus the stake back £10 Potential profit £14 as opposed to Betfairs £12

Anyone think this is unfair to also take the 20% off the stake Not that Betfar will care and I know I dont have to bet with betfair but just dont like unfairness

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PDC
Posts: 293
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2016 5:52 pm

Fri Sep 14, 2018 2:10 pm

Banthorpe wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:57 pm
Hiya All

I have backed a few runners recently where there have been non runners and still at a loss to work out How betfair seem to think that there non runner policy is fair not that it makes any difference to Betfair but thought I would bring the point up for discussion

Today I backed a Horse in the Salisbury 16-00 I had £10 on at 1.5 Giving a £15 return if the Horse won. The 2nd fav was taken out trading at a price of around 5 or 4/1 at the time leavng a 20% deduction but Betfair take the 20% off the Total potential returns including your stake so 20% off £15 making a £3 deduction so potential returns now of £12 So really from 1.5 to 1.2 Which is not a 20% deduction in winnings as they include my stake.

Bookmakers have a smilar rule 4 but only take the deduction off potential winnings So a 4/1 shot being withdrawn would have a 20p rule 4 but only off winnings So 20p in the pound off a £5 winnng would result in £1 off the £5 plus the stake back £10 Potential profit £14 as opposed to Betfairs £12

Anyone think this is unfair to also take the 20% off the stake Not that Betfar will care and I know I dont have to bet with betfair but just dont like unfairness
You have totally misunderstood the whole NR process.

You backed at 1.5. A 20% reduction factor was applied to the ODDS you backed at, your potential winnings don't factor in the calculation. 80% of 1.5 = 1.2 odds.

You backed £10 so your winnings are £2 and stake returned is £10 = £12 total potential return.

I suggest before you place anymore bets or trades you spend some time learning about Reduction Factors.

Betfair have been 100% fair to you.

Banthorpe
Posts: 53
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 1:40 pm

Fri Sep 14, 2018 3:11 pm

Thanks for the reply and you have totally misunderstood the point and your calculations are just the same as mine. And I would sujest you dont place anymore bets until you understand the point.
Whichever way you calculate it It will still come out the same. You can take 20% of the 1.5 those leaving 1.2 so any potential returns does = £12 The point you are missing is of that 1.5 the 1 is my stake so you are take 20% of my stake too which is unfair.
The 20% should only apply to the 0.5 part as the Bookmakers do.

20% reduction factor from Betfair or 20p in the pound deductions from winning that the Bookmakers charge is very dfferent

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PDC
Posts: 293
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2016 5:52 pm

Fri Sep 14, 2018 3:18 pm

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Banthorpe
Posts: 53
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 1:40 pm

Fri Sep 14, 2018 3:21 pm

My feelings exactly Its not difficult

sa7med
Posts: 156
Joined: Thu May 18, 2017 8:01 am

Fri Sep 14, 2018 3:23 pm

Banthorpe wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 3:11 pm
Thanks for the reply and you have totally misunderstood the point and your calculations are just the same as mine. And I would sujest you dont place anymore bets until you understand the point.
Whichever way you calculate it It will still come out the same. You can take 20% of the 1.5 those leaving 1.2 so any potential returns does = £12 The point you are missing is of that 1.5 the 1 is my stake so you are take 20% of my stake too which is unfair.
The 20% should only apply to the 0.5 part as the Bookmakers do.

20% reduction factor from Betfair or 20p in the pound deductions from winning that the Bookmakers charge is very dfferent
Banthrope, profit for 1.2 at 10 pounds stake is 2 pounds. potential returns as you say are 12 pounds. 2 pounds profit and your 10 back.

Banthorpe
Posts: 53
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 1:40 pm

Fri Sep 14, 2018 3:33 pm

Yeah that is all correct and I dont dispute that at all but that is not a 20% in potential winnngs. How the Bookmakers calculate it at 20% deduction or 20p in the pound from winnings is. Original potential winnings £5 less 20% or 20p in the pound = £1 so potential winning now £14 so in that case it is a 20% deduction

The betfair explanation above has the same flaw they take the 8.6 figure which in fractional odds is 7.6/1 but they are includ the 1 in their calculations which is a stake

Banthorpe
Posts: 53
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 1:40 pm

Fri Sep 14, 2018 3:40 pm

From £5 winnings to £2 wnnings Just isnt 20% Think you will find its less than half I will change that to £100 stake so to make the percentages easier from £50 winings to £20 is a 60% reduction in winnings not 20%

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to75ne
Posts: 1850
Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2009 5:37 pm

Fri Sep 14, 2018 3:43 pm

Banthorpe wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 3:40 pm
From £5 winnings to £2 wnnings Just isnt 20% Think you will find its less than half I will change that to £100 stake so to make the percentages easier from £50 winings to £20 is a 60% reduction in winnings not 20%
the reduction is calculated from the odds not the winnings

(Decimal odds / 100) x reduction factor of non-runner

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