I received an extensive email from a long time member on this site expressing their sadness that I no longer contributed positively as I used to and why that would be. The phrase 'wheat from the chaff' was mentioned and I agreed that it was indignant to imbue my negativity on to anyone innocently joining a website to further their trading knowledge. I said that in the future any posts I offered would try to help people move forward with their trading and nothing else. As always though it will never be given on a silver platter. I maintain that you only truly learn if you discover something for yourself.
How to DEFINITELY, DEFINITELY, DEFINITELY improve your trading.
For some time I had been looking for a complete stranger to teach to trade. I know I can trade and that I can teach. I have successfully taught people I know to trade (small sample), but could I teach a complete stranger to think about trading the way I do? I don’t just mean tell them and hope they get it. I mean really impart my knowledge so that I can watch them trade and know I would do the same thing that they have just done. This is THE acid test when it comes to teaching.
I looked all over internet websites including on this forum for someone who was right for me and them, a few very near misses, so thanks to those who replied to my ‘serious money’ post but it wasn’t quite right this time.
I love the whole psychology around teaching and as an aside… my view is that you will personally improve your understanding of any subject if you take an opportunity to teach it. Even the absolute basics.
Prove it to yourself, you will never look back and increase your understanding ten fold at the very least (estimated figures lol!!) …
Find a willing victim to sit and listen, then explain why betting on one runner in a race at 3/1 is the same as betting on two runners in the race at 6/1 and 7/1.
If you know this yourself but cannot impart the knowledge you are likely to be someone who suffers from clarity of thought, which will effect your trading obviously. The more you expose yourself to the subject in this way, the clearer you will become about the subject and especially where your need for improvement lies.
This technique works best with subject areas which you are not fully certain of yourself. It will direct you to the exact area of your weakness. The psychology as to why this works is beautifully simple but not easy to quickly explain here.
I never charge to teach, ever. I teach because I learn. So should you. Really you should. Really.
Did I mention that you should find someone to teach?
Do you think all the time about trading?
If this is you… there isn’t a good thing to say about this state.
Ignore this advice at your peril. Find a hobby, to redivert some of this energy.
Yes, be focused but don’t don’t hurt your long term freedom as a person.
The unreasonable man
If you are reasonable, you are part of the crowd. Most, most, not all will not make money trading if they are part of the crowd.
http://www.unreasonableman.net/
Can you keep focus.
Do you believe keeping focus is a valued attribute in trading? Why?
Well, who’s going to say no?
But… can you keep focus.
Have you done anything to improve your skill in this area. Why not? Really, why not?
Can you actually do anything? Or is it random fate? i.e some days you’re in the zone, some days you’re not. Simple innit? It’s not simple sorry. You can fix it in the most dramatic way imagineable, but few bother, care, worry, believe, whatever,etc.
Most people might ignore this bit unless I expand. So, for the few who are willing, I ask you how long (in actual seconds) can you sit and keep your mind empty of any thoughts. In other words… sit there without any thought of ANYTHING entering your mind. (Not really meant to sound mystical) Even in a quiet room you will struggle to last 10 - 15 seconds or so, without everyday thoughts intruding. Even if you practise regularly with nothing more than every ounce of willpower you can muster, you will do well to conquer 20 seconds!! These unwanted thoughts are knocking at the door while you are ‘trying’ to concentrate on trading. It is stuff which needs/wants/demands your attention, but you have decided to trade and therefore put them aside, so, why are they bothering you now? At this important time!
If you just want to know how to master this, you are sadly missing the point. You need to ‘want to know’ “why the hell you can’t just keep focused.”
It is possible with minimum practise (the correct practise) to sit for a full minute without being aware of a single outside thought coming to mind. Would this be helpful to you while you are trading?
How To Not Do Something…
If you didn’t realise this was a major reason why so many fail at trading profitably then welcome to the enlightenment and your new direction.
How to DEFINITELY, DEFINITELY, improve your trading
Quinny.
I’m quite interested in psychology but really know or understand little. I kind of drifted into the triune theory of the brain via trading trying to understand loss aversion etc, in myself and in other traders. And it made some sense, I could see some cause and effect (I’m an engineer, engineers like cause and effect). It seemed to explain other things as well but as I read about other theories (usually more recent one), they seem to suggest that the triune theory is quite away off the mark so to speak. Could you recommend any books, websites etc, where I could get a rounded overall picture of our minds work? I don’t mean specific to trading, just a good overall picture of how our brains work in everyday life. I am genuinely interested in the subject and would like to know more just for the sake of it.
Also “can you stay focused”? I’m quite a disciplined trader and I can stay focused most of the time, when I do lose it, I have the ability/knack to stop trading again most of the time (did not come natural, took a lot of effort and time to get to stage I am at now).
Again do you know of any books etc, as i am quite happy with the focus I have in trading, it is in other areas of my life where I really do need get some focus/discipline. As you know if you do a web search, or go to a book shop, search Amazon etc, you get bombarded with pseudo science, mystic nonsense, new age noddy stuff, in short utter rubbish.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Regards.
I’m quite interested in psychology but really know or understand little. I kind of drifted into the triune theory of the brain via trading trying to understand loss aversion etc, in myself and in other traders. And it made some sense, I could see some cause and effect (I’m an engineer, engineers like cause and effect). It seemed to explain other things as well but as I read about other theories (usually more recent one), they seem to suggest that the triune theory is quite away off the mark so to speak. Could you recommend any books, websites etc, where I could get a rounded overall picture of our minds work? I don’t mean specific to trading, just a good overall picture of how our brains work in everyday life. I am genuinely interested in the subject and would like to know more just for the sake of it.
Also “can you stay focused”? I’m quite a disciplined trader and I can stay focused most of the time, when I do lose it, I have the ability/knack to stop trading again most of the time (did not come natural, took a lot of effort and time to get to stage I am at now).
Again do you know of any books etc, as i am quite happy with the focus I have in trading, it is in other areas of my life where I really do need get some focus/discipline. As you know if you do a web search, or go to a book shop, search Amazon etc, you get bombarded with pseudo science, mystic nonsense, new age noddy stuff, in short utter rubbish.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Regards.
-
rubysglory
- Posts: 309
- Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2010 7:02 am
Psychology - spot on Quinny. I have known some very big traders and gamblers. The successful one's have all been at peace with themselves. They are mellow and thoughful. They are intellectually clever in a most diversified manner and some of the most genuinely caring people I have known.
rg
rg
Funnily enough, I was just thinking earlier how pleasant this forum is, and wondering whether that's because successful traders have acquired a greater self-control and mastery of their ego than most people...
Jeff
Jeff
Innertube wrote:I found not being totally up your own arse is a good attribute, not just in trading.
Hi Tony
You already have a book with exercises that will help you to sharpen your focus and get into the zone (The Three Minute Meditator by David Harp).
Are you sure you're not constantly looking for something new, rather than making full use of the techniques that you already have? A friend of mine is heavily into the teachings of Tony Robbins, the self-help guru. He spends lots of time watching Robbins recordings and reading his material, when I think he should find a few techniques he really believes in, and apply them 100%. I think lots of people fall into the trap of constantly searching for the Holy Grail (whether in trading or self-help), which is probably why Robbins is able to sell so many new DVDs...
Jeff
You already have a book with exercises that will help you to sharpen your focus and get into the zone (The Three Minute Meditator by David Harp).
Are you sure you're not constantly looking for something new, rather than making full use of the techniques that you already have? A friend of mine is heavily into the teachings of Tony Robbins, the self-help guru. He spends lots of time watching Robbins recordings and reading his material, when I think he should find a few techniques he really believes in, and apply them 100%. I think lots of people fall into the trap of constantly searching for the Holy Grail (whether in trading or self-help), which is probably why Robbins is able to sell so many new DVDs...
Jeff
to75ne wrote: Again do you know of any books etc, as i am quite happy with the focus I have in trading, it is in other areas of my life where I really do need get some focus/discipline.
-
petemalta1
- Posts: 10
- Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 10:49 am
ok
we need to practice being mindless
got it
we need to practice being mindless
got it
Hello Jeff,
Yeah and there 3 techniques that I use regularly while trading, one definitely every session (or more sometimes), so thanks for that recommendation, well worth the money and more importantly the time to the read it.
Perhaps I should have emphasised better that I am not that concerned about trading psychology as such but psychology in general, how our brain/mind works in normal everyday life. As I said I read by accident a theory by someone if I remember rightly a doctor MacLean developed I think in 50’s/60’s. it’s a evolutionary theory that explains how the brain as developed from the most primitive the reptilian brain, which is composed of our brains most ancient/primitive components/structures, and governs our most basic function, emotional states etc, and is very similar to a modern day reptilian brain.
It as worked well for hundreds of millions of years and nature does not invent new organs. If a new organ is required, an existing one is adapted and evolved over evolutionary time to perform the new function required, hence the next stage of brain evolution, the mammalian brain or limbic system, which been around since mammals evolved, its been evolving for around 100 million years or so, and controls among other thing nurture for offspring, higher emotions etc. then very recently about 300,000 years (2 minutes in evolutionary terms) the third layer/outer part the Nero cortex/cerebral cortex, where the ego allegedly resides, where we rationalise, visualise, make conscious decisions etc.
As an engineer I like it because, it forms a coherent system that makes sense to me, but having read more on the subject, it does appear to be at odds with current thinking. and experimental research.
I’m off the Ireland for the bulk of July and mainly staying with family, so while I am not at the racing, getting drunk etc, and they are at work or its raining (which is highly probable), I wish get a few books on the subject ready to take with me. Again none to specific, but which give a good overview of how our brain/minds work, just for the sake of it really.
regards tony
Im not looking for an holy grail
Yeah and there 3 techniques that I use regularly while trading, one definitely every session (or more sometimes), so thanks for that recommendation, well worth the money and more importantly the time to the read it.
Perhaps I should have emphasised better that I am not that concerned about trading psychology as such but psychology in general, how our brain/mind works in normal everyday life. As I said I read by accident a theory by someone if I remember rightly a doctor MacLean developed I think in 50’s/60’s. it’s a evolutionary theory that explains how the brain as developed from the most primitive the reptilian brain, which is composed of our brains most ancient/primitive components/structures, and governs our most basic function, emotional states etc, and is very similar to a modern day reptilian brain.
It as worked well for hundreds of millions of years and nature does not invent new organs. If a new organ is required, an existing one is adapted and evolved over evolutionary time to perform the new function required, hence the next stage of brain evolution, the mammalian brain or limbic system, which been around since mammals evolved, its been evolving for around 100 million years or so, and controls among other thing nurture for offspring, higher emotions etc. then very recently about 300,000 years (2 minutes in evolutionary terms) the third layer/outer part the Nero cortex/cerebral cortex, where the ego allegedly resides, where we rationalise, visualise, make conscious decisions etc.
As an engineer I like it because, it forms a coherent system that makes sense to me, but having read more on the subject, it does appear to be at odds with current thinking. and experimental research.
I’m off the Ireland for the bulk of July and mainly staying with family, so while I am not at the racing, getting drunk etc, and they are at work or its raining (which is highly probable), I wish get a few books on the subject ready to take with me. Again none to specific, but which give a good overview of how our brain/minds work, just for the sake of it really.
regards tony
Im not looking for an holy grail
With the wand of science,
We explain, decide, and discuss
But only in the silence
Will the market speak to us
Bill Williams, Trading author/coach (the second edition of his book Trading Choas is very good for trading psychology).
We explain, decide, and discuss
But only in the silence
Will the market speak to us
Bill Williams, Trading author/coach (the second edition of his book Trading Choas is very good for trading psychology).
petemalta1 wrote:ok
we need to practice being mindless
got it
Cool - I just thought I'd mention it as I think many people are (and my own inner perfectionist has often prevented me from taking constructive action and leaving the quest for the ultimate solution to another day!).
Jeff
Jeff
to75ne wrote:
Im not looking for an holy grail
Is your approach is 100% mechanical?
Because if there's any element of judgement involved, then there's no way that they will do exactly what you do 100% of the time...
Jeff
Because if there's any element of judgement involved, then there's no way that they will do exactly what you do 100% of the time...
Jeff
Quinny wrote: Could I teach a complete stranger to think about trading the way I do? I don’t just mean tell them and hope they get it. I mean really impart my knowledge so that I can watch them trade and know I would do the same thing that they have just done. This is THE acid test when it comes to teaching.
Man if ya wana help people who cant trade ,start now,give advice post it,be the first no one else is,
as sir winston churchill said ,, if you cant find a leader be one..but of course you wont. its like the american way,we must learn for ourselfs even if it takes hundreds of hours and costs hundreds of euros.if i finally get enough money togeather ill go to one of peters workshops ( training trading days )
spread the wealth brother post some pointers..
as sir winston churchill said ,, if you cant find a leader be one..but of course you wont. its like the american way,we must learn for ourselfs even if it takes hundreds of hours and costs hundreds of euros.if i finally get enough money togeather ill go to one of peters workshops ( training trading days )
spread the wealth brother post some pointers..
a good article about discipline which is one of the key factors that influence your trading performance.
http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2005/0 ... iscipline/
http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2005/0 ... iscipline/