Now thats better than any 1.01 Lay Satisticalylegendz wrote:i still have have a job with a good income because i dont know whats round the corner,
Losing Confidence!
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Johnny_Horror
- Posts: 9
- Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 2:28 pm
Hi Rogerlisa
A reletive Newbie to trading myself so I understand how you feel.
I dont feel anyway experienced enough to try and patronise you and give you advice on a field I'm still learning myself. But if I can pass on some of my own experiences that have shaped how I trade in the small amount of time (6 months) i have been doing this then maybe you can decide if this is for you.
I think one of the important things I have learned is to "expect the unexpected" there is no course of action a market will follow. It will go against you and you have to be prepared and be disciplined. I always have a set number of ticks that if the market does go against me then I'l get out (I'd Rather lose £50 then £500)and once I'm out i'l forget about what I've lost then move on to the next market.
Second most important thing to me is detach yourself from your bank. You will win, you will lose. Don't let either shape how you view the markets. I fell into Betfair by accident, after I joined betfair I learned about laying and on my first day I made £700 from horse racing. It wasnt until I lost my entire bank in the next 2 days that I realised, this isnt easy. It takes work and discipline.
The most important is you need a bit of soul searching. after I broke a few banks i walked away for a week and questioned why I wanted to do this. The answer for me was simple because I enjoyed it, and as some of the more experienced posters here have mentioned there is no 'easy trade', with Discipline in my trading i keep my losses manageble (at times!) the moment this stops being fun is the moment I walk away.
Hope this all helped
A reletive Newbie to trading myself so I understand how you feel.
I dont feel anyway experienced enough to try and patronise you and give you advice on a field I'm still learning myself. But if I can pass on some of my own experiences that have shaped how I trade in the small amount of time (6 months) i have been doing this then maybe you can decide if this is for you.
I think one of the important things I have learned is to "expect the unexpected" there is no course of action a market will follow. It will go against you and you have to be prepared and be disciplined. I always have a set number of ticks that if the market does go against me then I'l get out (I'd Rather lose £50 then £500)and once I'm out i'l forget about what I've lost then move on to the next market.
Second most important thing to me is detach yourself from your bank. You will win, you will lose. Don't let either shape how you view the markets. I fell into Betfair by accident, after I joined betfair I learned about laying and on my first day I made £700 from horse racing. It wasnt until I lost my entire bank in the next 2 days that I realised, this isnt easy. It takes work and discipline.
The most important is you need a bit of soul searching. after I broke a few banks i walked away for a week and questioned why I wanted to do this. The answer for me was simple because I enjoyed it, and as some of the more experienced posters here have mentioned there is no 'easy trade', with Discipline in my trading i keep my losses manageble (at times!) the moment this stops being fun is the moment I walk away.
Hope this all helped
I don't think we should forget the main reason that people want to trade or deploy higher level strategies. It's much better than just backing or laying. OK it can be frustrating and it's very different from traditional betting, but it's much better.
I think one of the issues is that with traditional betting tips are dominant. So when people start out trading from a gambling back ground that tipping train of thought makes it feel like there is some magic button or strategy when in fact it's a lot deeper than that. People inevitably want a short cut; so I know that annoys people who have been through the mill but I think it's inevitable, but contradictory, that people want to cut corners.
I think the industry does suffer from too many people pretending to be knowledgeable on trading and dishing out duff advice. It's fairly obvious to seasoned participants that a lot of shovel sellers are just that. One thing I'm proud of with Bet Angel is that I've always earned more from using it than selling it, but I think that's pretty rare TBH.
I think one of the issues is that with traditional betting tips are dominant. So when people start out trading from a gambling back ground that tipping train of thought makes it feel like there is some magic button or strategy when in fact it's a lot deeper than that. People inevitably want a short cut; so I know that annoys people who have been through the mill but I think it's inevitable, but contradictory, that people want to cut corners.
I think the industry does suffer from too many people pretending to be knowledgeable on trading and dishing out duff advice. It's fairly obvious to seasoned participants that a lot of shovel sellers are just that. One thing I'm proud of with Bet Angel is that I've always earned more from using it than selling it, but I think that's pretty rare TBH.
I wasn't going to post it , but i will anyway as i'm superstitious as my jix me more not posting it when thinking about helping someone a fellow newbie than not.
i have been using bet angel only a few days , then today learned how the dutching works.
i'm okay at maths and in general terms probablity speaks for itself
the maths of ohms law what can happen will happen so which means a long shot will come in , i dont think you should ever stake more than your profit in other words.
you stake for 20 dollars profit at 4 horses and make sure your stake doesn't go over 20 dollars will give or take maybe 25 but not over eccsess.
this means you are getting 2/1
on 4 horses,
even if you really want that 5th or 6th horse
long term it makes no mathimatical sense to go over the probablitily of something 50 to 50 something happening on the horses you have
the program gives you 50 50 shot of more than 4 horses i wouldn't go less than 4 horses.
thats my input , of course today i could lose but one today on that method
i have been using bet angel only a few days , then today learned how the dutching works.
i'm okay at maths and in general terms probablity speaks for itself
the maths of ohms law what can happen will happen so which means a long shot will come in , i dont think you should ever stake more than your profit in other words.
you stake for 20 dollars profit at 4 horses and make sure your stake doesn't go over 20 dollars will give or take maybe 25 but not over eccsess.
this means you are getting 2/1
on 4 horses,
even if you really want that 5th or 6th horse
long term it makes no mathimatical sense to go over the probablitily of something 50 to 50 something happening on the horses you have
the program gives you 50 50 shot of more than 4 horses i wouldn't go less than 4 horses.
thats my input , of course today i could lose but one today on that method
oh sorry i meant to say even if you really want that 5th or 6th horse that will bring you over 50 , 50 shot of your stake dont take it.
the odds of probability are on your side that you have 4 horses or more to give you a 2 /1 shot of doubling your money
the odds of probability are on your side that you have 4 horses or more to give you a 2 /1 shot of doubling your money
dont lay outsiders its the shorter priced favourites (price below 4.00) you want to be layingrogerlisa wrote: I have more questions but would be happy if I knew a simple trade that I could do to generate £300 per day. Does anyone have any suggestions and answers please.
I suppose you knew it all when you started did you! For your information I am married own my own successful business (to which I sometimes work 13 hours a day and still play golf)and have studied this trading lark for over 6 months. What is wrong in changing a lifestyle I didnt lose the money overnight it took six months. I dont want your secrets just some guidance like I am sure you did! Thats why forums exist. I suggest you dont judge everyone in the same way and stop thinking you are a genius who has struggled to learn something. Try working over sixty hours a week for 23 years before making snide comments.
To all those that replied to my post. For the experienced ones who are sick of newbies wanting advice(not secrets) - I have run a successful business for 20 years outside sometimes in temperatures you have not experienced and hours you have never heard of for more than 13 unsociable hours a day.My body now says stop so hence looking for something else, pardon me if I wanted some advise and knowledge and what sort of earnings could be expected after time! Dont need a porsche got a new maserati already, dont need a house got one in the country, dont need a tart got a wife and three grown kids, already play golf when have time. So genuine thanks to those who replied with helpful advise and to the others dont read newbies posts if you want to stay up your own arses and look down at mere mortals who want to learn. Of course you didnt search everywhere to get advise when you first started did you!
100% agree i have never looked at a bookmakers for tyhe last 3 yeras would never go anywhere near them since finding BA and Bf. No one can tell 100% of an outcome but you can estimate a price movement by using toolsEuler wrote:I don't think we should forget the main reason that people want to trade or deploy higher level strategies. It's much better than just backing or laying. OK it can be frustrating and it's very different from traditional betting, but it's much better.
.
I understand now why people dont get help on here because when they do they feel its a put down rather than good advice, thats why seasoned forum members stay silent, cant say i blame them nowrogerlisa wrote:To all those that replied to my post. For the experienced ones who are sick of newbies wanting advice(not secrets) - I have run a successful business for 20 years outside sometimes in temperatures you have not experienced and hours you have never heard of for more than 13 unsociable hours a day.My body now says stop so hence looking for something else, pardon me if I wanted some advise and knowledge and what sort of earnings could be expected after time! Dont need a porsche got a new maserati already, dont need a house got one in the country, dont need a tart got a wife and three grown kids, already play golf when have time. So genuine thanks to those who replied with helpful advise and to the others dont read newbies posts if you want to stay up your own arses and look down at mere mortals who want to learn. Of course you didnt search everywhere to get advise when you first started did you!
Please will everyone understand I do not come from a betting back ground (didnt even know what a lay bet was until someone who wanted to buy my maserati told me about it and sports trading)and not get hung up on me asking how to earn £300 per day. I simply was trying to get at - is it really possible without to much risk. I also asked two more questions to which nobody gave me any clues - the most important of which was why was this £30k on as a lay at 1.01 was it to try and minipulate the market as it was there for a while then disappeared? I am not simply betting that was one thing that I tried on horses in the early days and learnt the hard way not to do this so am now playing the movements in the market but why was this £30k there?
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followthatcamel
- Posts: 73
- Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2009 12:54 am
Hi Roger, welcome to the forum.
One of my theories is that it may just be people "parking" their betfair bank overnight to reduce their balance if their account is hacked. (Not entirely convinced on this as if your account is hacked then they could just cancel your orders and carry on, but it may help your case if you can prove "parking" your balance was a regular process).
Some traders also leave some of their bank at "unlikely" prices to catch the odd error made by a "bot" or someone with "fat fingers" trading a horse at higher odds that put an order in at the wrong price. If the traders order gets matched, thay can trade out at the real market price being offered for that selection.
The traders money at these prices will be removed from the market when it goes in play or when they cancel their orders or make them "Take SP"
Some may convert a % of their orders to "Keep" for when the race goes in play and look to be at the front of the queue should they wish to "lay the field" at 1.01 which is a strategy that some adopt.
This strategy has a risk of your order not getting matched unless you are at the front of the money queues when more than one horse trades at 1.01
No doubt there may well be other reasons for money sitting at 1.01 but I'm not sure what they are or that they have any relevance or impact to whats going on in the market pre race.
Regards
Doug
One of my theories is that it may just be people "parking" their betfair bank overnight to reduce their balance if their account is hacked. (Not entirely convinced on this as if your account is hacked then they could just cancel your orders and carry on, but it may help your case if you can prove "parking" your balance was a regular process).
Some traders also leave some of their bank at "unlikely" prices to catch the odd error made by a "bot" or someone with "fat fingers" trading a horse at higher odds that put an order in at the wrong price. If the traders order gets matched, thay can trade out at the real market price being offered for that selection.
The traders money at these prices will be removed from the market when it goes in play or when they cancel their orders or make them "Take SP"
Some may convert a % of their orders to "Keep" for when the race goes in play and look to be at the front of the queue should they wish to "lay the field" at 1.01 which is a strategy that some adopt.
This strategy has a risk of your order not getting matched unless you are at the front of the money queues when more than one horse trades at 1.01
No doubt there may well be other reasons for money sitting at 1.01 but I'm not sure what they are or that they have any relevance or impact to whats going on in the market pre race.
Regards
Doug
ok ok , you only want to earn £300 a day , WHY!!!!!!!!! you have your own business and drive a maserati FFS , why would you want to sit at a computer all day , surely if your business pays for a maserati and and a golf membership why would you need to be a trader , This has got to be a wind up , Mugs are you winding evereyone up again ??? it sounds like one of your wind up threads. 