Despair!!

[Darkpond1967]

Hi All,

I'm still fairly new to trading but thing that gets me the most is a lack of consistency on my part.
I can have really good runs where everything I do works out and then that ends and I have runs (such as the one I'm in at the moment where everything I touch (in the Bet Angel/Bet Fair trading world) turns to crap!!! Does anybody out there go through the same highs and lows?

I would appreciate some feedback just so I know I'm not alone.

Thanks,

Frustrated

[Derek27]

Hi All,

I'm still fairly new to trading but thing that gets me the most is a lack of consistency on my part.
I can have really good runs where everything I do works out and then that ends and I have runs (such as the one I'm in at the moment where everything I touch (in the Bet Angel/Bet Fair trading world) turns to crap!!! Does anybody out there go through the same highs and lows?

I would appreciate some feedback just so I know I'm not alone.

Thanks,

Frustrated

Absolutely. I've been trading ten years odd but I still have sessions where everything I touch is doomed or a frustrating run of 3-4 days where I've broke even. Sometimes it's down to my mindset and making daft mistakes, and sometimes it's down to the markets being difficult to trade and me not properly adjusting to them. There are also times when the gods seem to be against you and your best trade plays up in the stalls and is withdrawn!

What keeps me going when I've had a bad week is looking at my P/L for a longer period and the knowledge that, except for the first year, I've never had a losing quarter, been there before and always got back on my feet. I realise it's more difficult for a new trader as you don't have much experience to give you confidence, but as long as you can make a long term profit and work to improve it, it does get much easier to deal with these bad patches.

[ANGELS15]

Hi All,

I'm still fairly new to trading but thing that gets me the most is a lack of consistency on my part.
I can have really good runs where everything I do works out and then that ends and I have runs (such as the one I'm in at the moment where everything I touch (in the Bet Angel/Bet Fair trading world) turns to crap!!! Does anybody out there go through the same highs and lows?

I would appreciate some feedback just so I know I'm not alone.

Thanks,

Frustrated

You've got to remember that you're still learning your trade and can't compare yourself with longer term established traders on here. I've had successful strategies that yielded good results but even those had losing runs where it seemed I couldn't do anything right.

Before I knew about trading I was really just an ordinary punter betting on racing but eventually developed more systematc methods. I remember I was having a terrible day, had my last bet and it fell down in the stalls as the gates opened! Made me wonder if I'd done something in another life, I swear it wasn't in this one! On onther occasion I'd backed this horse on the exchange at 12.0 which i thought was good value. It was leading but wondered a bit in the closing stages was joined near the line but looked to have held on by a short head in the video freeze frame. It was 10/1 on to win on Betfair. I breathed a sigh of relief 30 seconds later the other runner was announced as the winner! (dodgy photo angle).

Nowadays I trade mostly in running but I've developed my own guidelines as to how to do this. I've kept records since I started on Bet Angel 2 1/2 years ago. Each of the first 2 years has been profitable. However there has been the odd month in each year where I've performed poorly and made a loss or broke even.

Because I've got the records I've been able to look more honestly and critically at what I do and try to see any patterns or modifications to methods. However I have some when things have been bad by looking at the overall record.

Treat what you're doing as learning for now watch as many of Peter's videos as you can and also interesting posts on this site relating to the activities you're interested in. Hopefully it will help. But remember we learn as much if not more from our failures as our successes.

Take heart better is yet to come.

[Kai]

Hi All,

I'm still fairly new to trading but thing that gets me the most is a lack of consistency on my part.
I can have really good runs where everything I do works out and then that ends and I have runs (such as the one I'm in at the moment where everything I touch (in the Bet Angel/Bet Fair trading world) turns to crap!!! Does anybody out there go through the same highs and lows?

I would appreciate some feedback just so I know I'm not alone.

Thanks,

Frustrated

It's very normal, a lot of people can have good runs but not many can maintain that level of consistency over a long period no matter what the markets throw at them, there's no real substitute for experience. The markets themselves vary a lot as well so if you're using more or less the same approach on every single one then you can have serious consistency issues. Practically everyone goes through a roller coaster ride at one point or another in the learning phase, it's very helpful to experience that as well, along with a tilt or two, to build up your character and learn from mistakes while they're small and cheap enough. At the end of the day/week the average result that you're seeing in the P&L section is a direct reflection of your trading ability, so if you don't like what you see you have to work on it. You can think whatever you want about your trading ability, good or bad, but the end result is the only true way of measuring that. Just focus on trading well from the execution point of view and the results should eventually catch up. Use the forum as a resource and search for similar threads, there were hundreds over the years, some mistakes you can't avoid but you can learn a lot from mistakes of others.

[wearthefoxhat]

Just guessing for sure, but if the loss(es) are hurting, maybe the size of the trade(s) are too big.

Depending on the types of trade, ie, scalp v swing, this will also be a factor. A big hit if your scalping will take an age to recover, whereas a swing trade, maybe not.

Any sort of losing run is normal, in any discipline in life, trading too. The markets are like moving sands, sometimes firm and stable, other times like quicksand.

Is giving up an option? yes and no. If the strategy is too volatile and unpredictable, maybe drop it for something that suits you best. Watch a few more trading videos on another sport that has an interest to you. You may find find a market that works better.

[Derek27]

I remember I was having a terrible day, had my last bet and it fell down in the stalls as the gates opened!

My unluckiest experience as a punter was backing two horses in a novices' chase. One fell at the first and brought down the other.

[ShaunWhite]

I remember I was having a terrible day, had my last bet and it fell down in the stalls as the gates opened!

My unluckiest experience as a punter was backing two horses in a novices' chase. One fell at the first and brought down the other.

You can tell how much pain this one caused me because it gives me chills even 21yrs later... I'd had a seriously 'proper bet' on SeeMoreBusiness in the 1998 Gold Cup. Tony McCoy felt Cyborgo had suffered an injury and urgently tried to pull him up before the next fence (hooray) but See More Business was running slightly wide of the field, had nowhere to go and it took him out of the race. (booo).

But re the OP:
Nobody who describes themselves as fairly new as any sort of consistency. Have a think about how long you've been trading, how many hours a week you do and how many hours you expected to do before you became consistent? It's generally accepted that it's only people who arrive armed with lots of relevant experience or exceptional natural ability that can crack it within a year and/or trading many thousands of events.

Stop stressing, enjoy it, and don't start worrying until you post "I've been trading for bloody ages and know everything there is to know but......"

[ANGELS15]

I remember I was having a terrible day, had my last bet and it fell down in the stalls as the gates opened!

My unluckiest experience as a punter was backing two horses in a novices' chase. One fell at the first and brought down the other.

Had that happen to me too!

[Darkpond1967]

Thanks guys,

It's good to know I'm not alone. Not going to give up as I love trading and really do see it as a way of making a sustainable second income but I accept that it is going to take time.
I still keep my trades really low only placing £2 or £4 trades most of the time so my losses to you might seem small but any loss still hurts. It's not so much how much I win it's just trying to find that consistent approach that see's a profit over time.
Is there a reasonably priced way of watching the racing live via a laptop or similar, the ones I have seen are really quite expensive?

Do any of you use the automation much, I've seen really variable results so far?

Thanks,

Darkpond1967

[PDC]

Is there a reasonably priced way of watching the racing live via a laptop or similar, the ones I have seen are really quite expensive?

Is free reasonable enough?

Just go into the market and match a £2 lay against a £2 back. This can be done at anytime from the markets being added to Betfair.

The night before is an easy way to do it when there is very little money in the market. You can do it in either the win or the place markets so if you are doing it on the day the place market may be a better option.

Then you can load up the Betfair Live video about 5 minutes before the race starts, give or take.

You can do the same on Betdaq though I think you have to use £2.50 to get £5 matched on the market.

[ShaunWhite]

I still keep my trades really low only placing £2 or £4 trades most of the time so my losses to you might seem small but any loss still hurts.

Try not to think of your PL in absolute terms. It's better to measure it against your total turnover, or maybe your average liability.
So if you turnover £100 and make £3 that's 3%, which would be a very decent return. Likewise -£5 would be a pretty rotten day.

Do any of you use the automation much, I've seen really variable results so far?

I don't do any manual trading now, it's all automation. It's not an easy option though, nothing will just work on everything straight out of the box. I'm fulltime and even so a decent strategy might take 6 months or more to develop to the point that it's reliable long term (for me anyway). Lot's of things might work for a few weeks or even months, but ones that work 365 will take a lot of effort (and R&D money for testing) unless you're tremendously lucky.

If you're new I'd say stick to the manual trading for now, lots of automation ideas stem from techniques you've learnt and things you've seen while you're sat working away at the coalface.

[george]

What i realise after some time trading is that doesnt matter how good or bad you are at trading sports, luck have a cycle as everything else in this universe

there is a time that you are on a winning streak which can last days, weeks or even months but there is a time that you will be on a losing streak as you mention

everything you touch turns to crap, the thing here is to realise in which of the above you are about to enter and act accordingly on a winnning streak you trade more

aggressively and on a losing streak you try to be more carefull and trade with caution till this fade out, use smaller stakes minimum the amount of exposure because

doesnt matter what you do when the time comes you will lose money just try to lose the less you can

i had times when i make the most insane profits by mistake and times like my vaping device drops to the mouse clicking on the wrong side of the ladder make me lose a serious amount of money

personally i trade with intuition and that makes me a better trader than most people i know doing this job who are more knowledgeable than me on a specific sport for example football i have no idea about

i never watched a full game in my whole life no idea about teams players or even rules but i have a 6 figure earnings every year consistently by just following the money on the market and my gut feeling

trading is an emotional rollercoster and you need to not let those feelings control your trading do not get angry when losing is part of the ecosystem losing and winning trades daily is called trading, what matters is that you are in a profit in the long run

u cannnot make the mistake by thinking that you are a successful trader or a bad trader based on your daily earnings that is so wrong you have to look at a wider picture, be in profit at the end of the week or at the end of the month.

i know that most people will disagree with me in so many levels and i get it, but i searched for a long time what works for me and what doesnt and during this time i had my moments of enlightenment


Good luck to everyone and never give up in your dreams think positively, you are what you think, just ask and believe and the universe will make it happen

[ShaunWhite]

You either have an edge or you don't. And depending on your strike rate you'll have different periods of drawdown. There shouldn't be any emotional rollercoaster or particularly dramatic wins or loses in much the same way as they're not a part of any managed or actively traded fund.

Asking the universe, simply believing, or even the entire concept of 'luck' doesn't have any part to play.

[george]

You either have an edge or you don't. And depending on your strike rate you'll have different periods of drawdown. There shouldn't be any emotional rollercoaster or particularly dramatic wins or loses in much the same way as they're not a part of any managed or actively traded fund.

Asking the universe, simply believing, or even the entire concept of 'luck' doesn't have any part to play.

Shouldnt be any emotional rollercoaster ? not part of any managed traded fund ?

you think you are on the financial times forum , or maybe you think people here have a manager handling their portofolio or a team making decisions for them to an investement strategy , we talking about a single person sitting in the room in front of the screen many hours a day dealing with losses and winnings multiple time a day all they see is red and green, u bet thats an emotional rollercoaster very rough ride specially if u are new to this ganme and trying to make it work

happy and unhappy feelings mixed all day long and if u dont have little bit of a luck in this game you are doom ,doesnt matter how many hours you spend doing analytics collecting data about horses players teams weather location injuries doesnt really matter its all waste of time all it takes is a bee or a butterfly to scare the horse and drop down the jockey or distract the goalkeeper the moment someone tries to score a goal

[Korattt]

if I may add my tuppence worth?, just record as many markets as you possibly can & if you want to take this seriously invest in additional screens, to be fair you really only need two, but you do need to put the hours in. If I could turn the clock back I wouldn’t have spent a penny trading horse racing until I’d watched enough markets to spot chart patterns that repeat themselves time after time.

Peter’s videos give out info that is second to none & there are people out there that dismiss Peter’s videos & his methods BUT.. if you unpick the videos he offers they are the cornerstones of how to find edges on horse racing trading, it may take you a while but trust me it will be worth it in the end..

Best of luck to all

Andy