Bet Angel for newbies / Getting started : Frustrated Newbie - any advice?

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stiwdiobet
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:48 am

Wed Sep 09, 2020 5:30 pm

Hi Everyone, I've been using BA for a few weeks and am enjoying it, I definitely don't see it as something quick to learn but even though I'm losing money, I'm enjoying it but frustrated at the same time.

Can anyone share their experiences when first starting out? Were you frustrated? Did it seem that every trade goes against you, as it seems sometimes when I open a trade. I read somewhere that a lot of newbies feel there's a conspiracy against them, lol and I can certainly empathise with that feeling sometimes.

So I've watched the videos and read a lot, and some good advice was to learn one thing, master that and then master something else.

So really I'd like to hear any suggestions as what you think a newbie focus on to master first and have a chance at being profitable, lol a couple of £ a day would be a start.

I read Dallas's blog about the various type of Scalping which was great and interesting, but even that, most of the time, doesn't seem to go the way I expect.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Cheers
Darren

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ShaunWhite
Posts: 6188
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:42 am

Wed Sep 09, 2020 6:18 pm

No easy answer unfortunately. Anything and everything is potentially profitable, or potentially loss making, and whether one thing is easier than another is down to the individual. Try to choose something you feel plays to your interests and strengths, if you're techy that might involve some sort of stats or automaton, or if you have a passion for horseracing then you'll probably enjoy trading that manualy for 6hrs a day. But if you've no interest in horseracing that's going to get tedious, and you might be better off looking at football or cricket etc.

Focus on one thing, but also accept that if it's not suiting you then there's plenty of others, just give things a proper chance though rather than flitting from one thing to another.

Whether or not you find it frustrating depends on your expectations. You're probably not going to see any real progress for at least 6 months or more, so if you accept that then there's no need to get frustrated until it's been well over that. Until then, just losing slightly less each week is good progress.

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Derek27
Posts: 8749
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:44 am
Location: UK

Wed Sep 09, 2020 6:24 pm

Take a look ar the BA academy videos.

I experienced that frustrating time but looking back with hindsight, the early days should have been the least pressurising period, trading with £2 stakes and just pennies to lose. It's also a good time to experiment. For example, if the market keeps going against you try entering 5 ticks away, see if it continues to go against you, misses the order or bounces back. You'll gradually build up a picture of common patterns.

spreadbetting
Posts: 2953
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:06 pm

Wed Sep 09, 2020 7:02 pm

I'd agree with Shaun, ignore horseracing for now it'll drive you nuts with prices seemingly bouncing in and out at random. Scalping horseracing for a newbie is probably the worst thing you can do as you'll have lots of littles wins convincing you you've almost cracked it yet every so often all your profits will be wiped out and more. Start thinking about why prices move and if you could possibly pre-empt them or even move enough for you to jump on the train.

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ShaunWhite
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Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:42 am

Wed Sep 09, 2020 7:14 pm

spreadbetting wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 7:02 pm
Scalping horseracing for a newbie is probably the worst thing you can do
I've always thought that, a dozen things to keep an eye on and you need reactions like a wild west gunslinger. All in the most competitive 5mins of any market anywhere. Looks easy though, so it's tempting.

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darchas
Posts: 116
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2018 7:55 pm

Wed Sep 09, 2020 7:15 pm

I've been there so can empathise with your frustration, as I'm sure many can on this forum. Like some of the answers you've had so far unfortunately I don't have an easy answer. One of the best things you can do imo is reset your expectations - even your 'lol a couple of £ a day would be a start' is actually really tough to achieve and tells me you might not yet have a grasp on how difficult a journey is ahead. It took me a good 3-4 years I'd say before I was in a place where I had an approach that was making me pennies a day - this is actually a massive break through moment, you realise you can make money and it's just a case of scaling up (which brings it's very own challenges!). I might be an outlier here and maybe on the slower end, I have been through all that frustration - but when I look back I wouldn't swap any of it. Every dead end, every blind alley, every kick in the teeth taught me something. So I know it's tough and not good to hear but it's something I think you need to go through to actually build a strong enough foundation for long term success.

As to what to involve yourself in first - I'd say something that you're interested in. There's a certain stubborn streak that I think you need, or at least I did, you pick something, a particular market, and you watch and poke and prod and get your hands dirty and little by little you start to get the measure of it. This is probably easier if you have an interest in it and the more knowledge you bring to a topic from outside trading I think the better (although not everyone would agree with this).

Good luck!

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Kai
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Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:51 pm

stiwdiobet wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 5:30 pm
So really I'd like to hear any suggestions as what you think a newbie focus on to master first and have a chance at being profitable, lol a couple of £ a day would be a start.
Greyhounds probably. Those are some of the smallest markets on the exchange and learning how racing markets are formed from scratch is not a bad place to start since you'll be playing around with pennies anyway.

Fully mastering that market can get you up to 4 figures daily if you don't mind the grind, or at least into 3 figures if you get any decent at it. It's not a dead end either, skills you develop will directly translate to other bigger markets where you can build on them further, and you can still automate parts of the greyhounds edge once you move on to bigger markets etc.

I think a complete newbie stands virtually no chance on UK horse racing, but plenty of newbie threads around, should definitely read a few dozen at least, can avoid most of the bigger mistakes by doing that, but not all of them unfortunately. Godspeed.

stiwdiobet
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:48 am

Wed Sep 09, 2020 9:24 pm

Hey thank you everyone for taking the time to reply and such good honest opinions. Ive actually been watching the markets on Horses and they just thre me, no betting just thinking well the fav is going out so the second fav is coming in, but the bet on sometimes and it changes instantly lol

So i tried scalping the greyounds just by using the make market feature which has been having some return, only pennies but its more the fact that there seems to be some logic behind it, ie back and lay are close and matched money both sides is close etc, woudl be good to see if I could automate that somehow and test it.

Does anyone have advice when it comes to scalping greyhounds or the greyhound market in general? Never thought id enjoy the grehound market but it feels to me a watered down or safer market than the horses but i coudl be totally wrong.

Dave C
Posts: 46
Joined: Thu May 26, 2016 1:12 am

Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:30 pm

Kai wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:51 pm

Fully mastering that market can get you up to 4 figures daily if you don't mind the grind, or at least into 3 figures if you get any decent at it. It's not a dead end either, skills you develop will directly translate to other bigger markets where you can build on them further, and you can still automate parts of the greyhounds edge once you move on to bigger markets etc.

I'm sorry, are you suggesting here that you can manually trade greyhounds and make 4 figures a day? (those figures could be £10.00 I suppose)

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Kai
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Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:30 am

Dave C wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:30 pm
Kai wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:51 pm

Fully mastering that market can get you up to 4 figures daily if you don't mind the grind, or at least into 3 figures if you get any decent at it. It's not a dead end either, skills you develop will directly translate to other bigger markets where you can build on them further, and you can still automate parts of the greyhounds edge once you move on to bigger markets etc.

I'm sorry, are you suggesting here that you can manually trade greyhounds and make 4 figures a day? (those figures could be £10.00 I suppose)
Nah, probably not :) Not spent much time on this market myself, a few years ago for mostly educational purposes, didn't go above lower 3 figures. Did meet two traders that narrowly specialized this market for a very long time, they would go up to 4 figs sometimes when they hit a few bangers.

Seen quite a few decent greyhound traders around as well on social media (idk if they sell anything nowadays so I edited out their names), but iirc they had 2-5 on average per race and would jump on 60+ races in a day. That's probably a bit more realistic, reaching around 4 figures over a week. The grind is brutal though and not for everyone.

OP did say he'd be happy with a couple £ per day to start with, which he can accomplish by playing around with 2 stakes on doggos, so not a bad starting place for a newbie I reckon!

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