Scalping for beginners

We were all new to Bet Angel once. Ask any question you like here and fellow forum members promise not to laugh.
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cybernet69

Thu Jan 12, 2017 7:57 pm

threedogs wrote:I am also struggling to understand the markets and on the theme of noticing recurring patterns I have noticed that all indicators will at one time favour a lay bet and then it seems as soon as i put a low stake on the market immediately drops 5 and 6 ticks away from my price straight into a loss situation from which it rarely recovers and when I check the indicators are still showing to lay even though by doing the opposite and backing I would have made a good profit .. I cant understand why it does that....any ideas ??
Reason being...

You are taking money off someone else who has offered money on the back or lay side of the market.

Very often these are called market makers and run some very dedicated/sophisticated bots which will shift the odds in their favour to complete their book and make a profit overall. What their bots are doing is not possible in BA or other commercially available products.

They are usually built to do one thing and overall they do it very well. Obviously.

You can still do it but you need to be very fast at entering TRUE scratch trades asap if the market does move against you. This means effectively you end up backing/laying at the same odds/amounts to get a ZERO outcome where needed. Again, that is not possible (automated) in BA or alike etc.

However, what you can do is OFFER money into the market on both sides when the price has been stable for > 60 seconds and the current WOM is between 45 and 55. You would probably need to do that in Excel automation has you really only want to compare the WOM for the current back/lay amounts offered and not the 3 best on either side etc.

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ruthlessimon
Posts: 752
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2016 3:54 pm

Thu Jan 12, 2017 8:06 pm

threedogs wrote:I am also struggling to understand the markets and on the theme of noticing recurring patterns I have noticed that all indicators will at one time favour a lay bet and then it seems as soon as i put a low stake on the market immediately drops 5 and 6 ticks away from my price straight into a loss situation from which it rarely recovers and when I check the indicators are still showing to lay even though by doing the opposite and backing I would have made a good profit .. I cant understand why it does that....any ideas ??
this is a prop trader @ futex. look what he's using: 1. ladder 2. volume profile. notice he isn't using WOM, MACD, stochastics & god knows what else. (also algorithms are 90% of the markets he's trading). all he's watching is the price & orders entering the market.

i saw recently someone say, "when prop firms hire new traders, first they teach them how to read order flow. once they're profitable, then they're allowed to use charts"
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threedogs
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:24 am

Fri Jan 13, 2017 10:41 am

THanks for both answers and I learn every day

Mr.rabiD
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2017 3:25 am

Tue Feb 07, 2017 4:46 am

rion6791 wrote:Hi all,

I am a complete novice in the world of trading.

I am using the 7 day free trial of Bet Angel Pro, and watched the following video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMs3SfXiV8U

The second part shows the user 'scalping' using the one click screen, he makes it look so simple as though there's no brain power required at all.

I thought seeing as the trial was free. I'd give it a go using £2 stakes. I tried it once to lay the favourite but ended up losing 0.35p, I then went to the next race and did the same process, all the this time I spread the profit over all runners and ended up with 0.04p profit.

I just wanted to know whether there is some sort of signals to look out for or a time frame to place the lay bet?

I should note I had all the same options as the guy in the video selected with just smaller stakes.

I realise I'm probably falling at the first hurdle and the majority reading this will probably be amused at my apparent 'stupidity' but trading is something I am really interested in learning and perhaps one day mastering.

So if anyone can spare a minute and advise basic pointers to get me on my way, using very small stakes (I understand this will only result in potentially small profits,but that's fine for now)it'd be brilliant!!

Thanks in advance
I feel exactly how you do mate. So far i have lost £60. "tuition fees" I had some odd shit happen when i thought i closed the market. But the loss kept going up! It went till the race ended and i lost £23. So - so far i am doing really shit at this. I have watched loads of the videos and trying to learn. As like you i really want to get this working for me. Bu when you are making 2p -4p profit and loosing like 5-20p its very sole destroying indeed. I am guessing that you need to be playing with £100 stakes to make a realistic profit on this game. Very frightening.

Bluesky
Posts: 408
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2016 9:26 pm

Tue Feb 07, 2017 8:25 am

Mr.rabiD wrote:I am guessing that you need to be playing with £100 stakes to make a realistic profit on this game. Very frightening.
I think its a good idea just to try and learn how to trade well and not worry too much about making money when you first start out. If you become proficient then the money will come anyway.

Some people say you should trade with money that means something to you, however I think this depends on the individual. If you can trade with minimum stakes and take it seriously, then that's what I would suggest you do.

Someone posted something along the lines of the following recently on this site, and I 100% agree with them, they said.

If you cant make money with small stakes then you certainly wont make money with large ones.

cybernet69

Tue Feb 07, 2017 9:45 am

Bluesky wrote:
Mr.rabiD wrote:I am guessing that you need to be playing with £100 stakes to make a realistic profit on this game. Very frightening.
I think its a good idea just to try and learn how to trade well and not worry too much about making money when you first start out. If you become proficient then the money will come anyway.

Some people say you should trade with money that means something to you, however I think this depends on the individual. If you can trade with minimum stakes and take it seriously, then that's what I would suggest you do.

Someone posted something along the lines of the following recently on this site, and I 100% agree with them, they said.

If you cant make money with small stakes then you certainly wont make money with large ones.
It can be done but it is difficult at times. Also depends allot on what markets you are trading.

If horse racing then stay away from non hcap races as they tend to be better for swing trading.

Also, you need to be lightening fast at scratching your trades for zero p/l if things go pair shaped. However, there is a way of automating this.

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workpeter
Posts: 165
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2016 8:29 pm

Tue Feb 07, 2017 7:08 pm

cybernet69 wrote: very dedicated/sophisticated bots which will shift the odds in their favour to complete their book and make a profit overall. What their bots are doing is not possible in BA or other commercially available products.

They are usually built to do one thing and overall they do it very well....

You can still do it but you need to be very fast at entering TRUE scratch trades asap if the market does move against you. This means effectively you end up backing/laying at the same odds/amounts to get a ZERO outcome where needed. Again, that is not possible (automated) in BA or alike .
Why can't we do this in BA?

cybernet69

Tue Feb 07, 2017 7:30 pm

workpeter wrote:
cybernet69 wrote: very dedicated/sophisticated bots which will shift the odds in their favour to complete their book and make a profit overall. What their bots are doing is not possible in BA or other commercially available products.

They are usually built to do one thing and overall they do it very well....

You can still do it but you need to be very fast at entering TRUE scratch trades asap if the market does move against you. This means effectively you end up backing/laying at the same odds/amounts to get a ZERO outcome where needed. Again, that is not possible (automated) in BA or alike .
Why can't we do this in BA?
Without using Excel, how would you tell BA to scratch a back or lay trade. Meaning you back or lay at the same odds/amount as your opening trade ?

scottyboy319
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:12 am

Fri Mar 31, 2017 4:31 pm

I am having trouble making a profit from scalping on horse racing! I am watching the videos on youtube where they are scalping and using the same amount of money to back and ley and they are saying they know how much they will win regardless of what horse wins. But I am doing the same thing (I have settings set to offset with greening) but I am always breaking even and never getting a profit like the guys on the youtube videos are saying they are. If I stake more on the ley bet and the ley bet wins I will make a profit but if the back bet wins i will make a loss. I don't know where I am going wrong! any help would be much appreciated. I am new to trading!

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Dallas
Posts: 6308
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2015 10:57 pm

Fri Mar 31, 2017 4:45 pm

I assume this is carried on from this thread?
http://www.betangel.com/forum/viewtopic ... 33&t=13820

The info by Eddie9005 was correct but it sounds like you either dont have global settings enabled (blue cog icon uncrossed), if that is already uncrossed if you post a copy of a log for a market and a screenshot of your top banner so the settings being used can be seen someone will be able to advise further

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