Bet Angel for newbies / Getting started : Appears simple but is devilishly difficult.

We were all new to Bet Angel once. Ask any question you like here and fellow forum members promise not to laugh. Betfair trading made simple.
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Lammtarra
Posts: 74
Joined: Sat Jun 29, 2013 12:16 pm

Wed Dec 16, 2015 10:02 am

Thanks Marc, when I get home later I'll check it out.

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Crazyskier
Posts: 446
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2016 6:36 pm

Thu Feb 18, 2016 7:17 pm

Black Ice wrote:Hi Lammtarra,
Have been following your travails with interest, largely because the advice from Dallas, Le Tiss etc is so good and i have learnt so much from it. Sorry things haven't worked out for you...
I don't know if Lamtarra still frequents these forums but I am also here from the sage advice of Dallas and have just spent 25 minutes reading all of the emotional highs and lows of Lamtarra and it's spooky how closely it echoes my own situation at times...

It's certainly helpful to know the thoughts and share the frustrations of others in the same boat, and for that Lamtarra and others have my thanks!

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Pontius Fascias-Inn
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun May 14, 2017 5:57 pm

Sun May 14, 2017 6:34 pm

Evening All,

Just read the thread. Kudos to Lamtarra. I am a total noob. Well 10 days in & using alternative software (hope to get BA soon), thankfully in demo mode, and already have busted more banks than the Oceans Eleven, The Italian Job, and the gangs of Snatch put together.

If there is a positive side, I have actually quantified the risk of letting a pre-race scalp go in-running.

It is exactly 34.454 Times greater than the 'potential' (<<< and that right theres the problem) loss taken at 00.00
Oh well tomorrow is another week, so let see how we go...
And if I can kick this gambling habit :shock:

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to75ne
Posts: 1872
Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2009 5:37 pm

Sun May 14, 2017 7:08 pm

out of curiosity how have you quantified it?

how have you come up with quite a precise number "It is exactly 34.454 Times greater than the 'potential"

(also quite apt that you have resurrected this thread, given the recent posts about going in play, lack of discipline etc ).

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Pontius Fascias-Inn
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun May 14, 2017 5:57 pm

Sun May 14, 2017 8:17 pm

Well to75ne,

Each of the 10 days begins with the notional £10,000 ('Rockerfella') Starting Bank, and the P&L (orL&L) was :
and so the 34.45 is actually the ratio of loss to profit. Or to pull down my pants down totally....

Date £P&L
Fr 5th May + 304.75
Sa 6th May -10,0000
Su 7th May - 1,386.59
Mo 8thMay - 1,492.35
Tu 9th May + 107.67
We10thMay + 240.00
Th11thMay - 2,722.85
Fr12thMay - 4,630.33
Sa13thMay + 231.24
Su14thMay -10,213.86 (< so bad I think the Bank Manager charged me for his train travel down here as well)

So 6 Days Negative = - £30,445.98
And 4 Days Positive = + £ 883.66

Hence 34.45

This if anything probably flatters the actual in-running (Blow-up) losses, because I think the ratio would as an average likely be much much higher on a trade by trade weighted basis.

Although horrific, for me it is a baseline of sorts, and perpetually going In-Running, whilst the biggest and most obvious error I am making, I'm pretty sure, I am guilty of every other trading crime going, ie overtrading (traded virtually every race going), overstaking (how can the hedged figure be so small when your whole bank is on the race lol), doubleing down, adding to losing positions, chasing etc etc.

I probably need to take a couple of days to let it all sink in, and reflect. If trading was car hire, 6 of those rentals ended up in the scrap yard, miraculously somehow 4 of them got back to Enterprise, albeit a bit battered, but still road-worthy. So I'll probably be thumbing a lift for the next few days, or venturing about on foot, before diving in again.

LinusP
Posts: 1455
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:45 pm

Sun May 14, 2017 8:47 pm

What stakes are you using? I think you will get more out of practice mode if you use realistic stakes, £2 to start or it will be a very different experience when you go live.

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Dallas
Posts: 9482
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2015 10:57 pm
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Sun May 14, 2017 9:32 pm

Pontius Fascias-Inn wrote:
Sun May 14, 2017 8:17 pm

I probably need to take a couple of days to let it all sink in, and reflect. If trading was car hire, 6 of those rentals ended up in the scrap yard, miraculously somehow 4 of them got back to Enterprise, albeit a bit battered, but still road-worthy.
:lol: I love that analogy

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Pontius Fascias-Inn
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun May 14, 2017 5:57 pm

Sun May 14, 2017 10:42 pm

Haha thanks Dallas ;)

And LinusP (werent you that character from 'Lost'?), either way, I dare say you've not Lost as much as I have here lol

The stakes I have been using are normally £100, although I do decrease this down to £50 sometimes, if the liquiidity isnt there, or it seems a low key race with not much money, and if quite frankly the stake size looks out of place in the que.

Quite often if its a very short priced odds-on favourite, in a highly liquid race, I'll go to £200 stakes. By now I can almost see you :roll: and you probably think I'm I living in La La Land ? I am. Absolutely.

I know you are right, and of course when I do eventually go live, it will be with £2 stakes.
But in learning mode, if I dropped down to £2 stakes on a £10,000 bank, there will be no emotional buy-in into what I am trying to learn, and oddly if anything I am probably more likely to go into play, just out of either boredom, or sheer lack of respect for the small amount of stake money involved (even though its all fake anyway right now - except it doesn't exactly feel fake- if that makes any sense).

In any case although the money is not real, my emotional response to it is for me, very real. So broadly the theory in my head thinks that if I get into a boxing ring, with Mike Tyson, and want to learn to fight, I'd probably learn more in the ring by being punched in the face from him, than by pulling up a couple of stools (bad choice of words there lol), and talking to him whilst playing a game of tiddlywinks. The stronger emotional response from the punch in the face, will at least (hopefully) make me want to avoid it.

That's why the larger stakes, because they are causing much bigger stronger, and more negative feelings, that I am trying to run away from. If I don't face them, I can't acknowledge them. If I cant acknowledge them, I cant accept them. And if I cant accept them, I certainly can't begin to change them.

Besides staking £2 (fake money) on a £10k bank would be a bit like Cheryl Tweedy walking naked into my room, and then me asking her if she wanted to see my stamp collection :oops:

When I do go live tho LinusP you can bet yer arse (and Cheryl's) that it will definitely be with 2nd Class stakes and the Queens sticky blessing. God Bless Her (& Phil the Greek, even tho he sounds like a character from Snatch) :)

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marksmeets302
Posts: 506
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2009 4:37 pm

Mon May 15, 2017 8:19 am

That's the whole point: you shouldn't be emotional about the money. Once you start not to care your trading will improve. Of course that will make this more like a job, without all the excitement of gambling.

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Pontius Fascias-Inn
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun May 14, 2017 5:57 pm

Mon May 15, 2017 9:54 am

Oddly enough Mark,

I think I could be approaching that point. I really don't have any passion for or genuine interest even in horse racing. Its a 'potential' means to an end for me. I don't come from a gambling background, and tho the results don't reflect it (or maybe they do), I am extremely risk averse.

Oddly enough I do see it as work, already. I don't class it as something I would naturally enjoy. Looking at it from that perspective, I'd like to get through a session as emotionally neutral as possible, and that why i'm going to take a few days off (maybe a week or so), and examine my thought processes, psychology, and the mechanics behind self-sabotage, which is really the underlying theme throughout this thread, right from when Lamtarra started it.

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