So much discussion about automation on the forum

[sniffer66]

Unless you've got an IQ below 100 you can do pretty much anything if work at it enough (footballer/pop star etc excluded).

Looks like most of us are destined to be very ordinary

Now I know why I did so well in Australia

[xtrader16]

Professionals use Automation - Amateurs trade manually. Decide which one you want to be. I should listen to my own advice.

In case you didn't realise, people have been making a living from betting long before the exchange even existed!

Not from Trading they haven't. Oh, by they way more people lose money than make money backing horses today or any day you wish to name. Thats why Bet365 makes £300 million per year.

My point is the automation of Betfair markets makes it very difficult for manual traders to profit from it. Automation is taking A+B+C+D into account whilst manual traders are still looking at A. It's automated money that moves the ladder up and down not manual.

[Kai]

Professionals use Automation - Amateurs trade manually. Decide which one you want to be.

So that would make Peter a very experienced amateur then? A semi-pro at best??

[Trader Pat]

My point is the automation of Betfair markets makes it very difficult for manual traders to profit from it. Automation is taking A+B+C+D into account whilst manual traders are still looking at A. It's automated money that moves the ladder up and down not manual.

That's just not true. And I'd go as far as saying the complete opposite. As a manual trader you can clearly see some of the automation that's at play in the markets and profit from what its trying to do.

[jimibt]

My point is the automation of Betfair markets makes it very difficult for manual traders to profit from it. Automation is taking A+B+C+D into account whilst manual traders are still looking at A. It's automated money that moves the ladder up and down not manual.

That's just not true. And I'd go as far as saying the complete opposite. As a manual trader you can clearly see some of the automation that's at play in the markets and profit from what its trying to do.

put simply, the market is there for all types of trader. just need to be mindful of purpose and keep the focus and mindset open for evolving conditions.

[Kai]

Unless you've got an IQ below 100 you can do pretty much anything if work at it enough (footballer/pop star etc excluded).

Looks like most of us are destined to be very ordinary

Very surprised to see my country in the green, don't know where you got this image from but that is highly inaccurate. From my experience our average IQ seems to be around the low 50ish range. Luckily I was blessed with an unnaturally high IQ of 69, plus it helps to be one of the only two people in my country that can afford internet, the other would be Madam President.

[Trader Pat]

Unless you've got an IQ below 100 you can do pretty much anything if work at it enough (footballer/pop star etc excluded).

Looks like most of us are destined to be very ordinary

Very surprised to see my country in the green, don't know where you got this image from but that is highly inaccurate. From my experience our average IQ seems to be around the low 50ish range. Luckily I was blessed with an unnaturally high IQ of 69, plus it helps to be one of the only two people in my country that can afford internet, the other would be Madam President.

I found it on the website at the bottom of the image, basically maps of all kinds of stuff.

Its supposedly based on a book that was written by the 2 guys named at the top. Interesting that the 'most intelligent country in Europe' is the home of one of the authors

[xtrader16]

Whatch how the market moves in a Hi/Lo 60 second 4-6 tick range from +5:00 to + 02:20...ish then the automation files either stop or take profits and manual traders latch on the trend that is left behind from 02:00 to 00:00 whan ALL automation stops as so does any volatility and volume increase. If manual traders where even 20% of the market the ladders would still be moving as UK racecourses dont seem to be able to get a race off on time anymore.

My point being automation controls the markets.

[Derek27]

Professionals use Automation - Amateurs trade manually. Decide which one you want to be. I should listen to my own advice.

In case you didn't realise, people have been making a living from betting long before the exchange even existed!

Not from Trading they haven't. Oh, by they way more people lose money than make money backing horses today or any day you wish to name. Thats why Bet365 makes £300 million per year.

My point is the automation of Betfair markets makes it very difficult for manual traders to profit from it. Automation is taking A+B+C+D into account whilst manual traders are still looking at A. It's automated money that moves the ladder up and down not manual.

The majority of traders lose! You've got it the wrong way round, automation takes a, b, c and d into consideration, manual traders take anything and everything they wish to into consideration, the elements are infinite. Manual traders often profit from poorly-programmed bots that miss non-runners and reduction factors.

[xtrader16]

The majority of traders lose! You've got it the wrong way round, automation takes a, b, c and d into consideration, manual traders take anything and everything they wish to into consideration, the elements are infinite. Manual traders often profit from poorly-programmed bots that miss non-runners and reduction factors.
[/quote]

Automation files single out the main contributing factors and apply them at great speed, you cannot do this manually unless you are Steven Hawkins. The idea our brains bandwith is faster or superior to an automated software is a bit absurd.

[Derek27]

Whatch how the market moves in a Hi/Lo 60 second range from +5:00 to + 02:20...ish then the automation files either stop or take profits and manual traders latch on the trend that is left behind from 02:00 to 00:00 whan ALL automation stops as so does any volatility and volume increase. If manual traders where even 20% of the market the ladders would still be moving as UK racecourses dont seem to be able to get a race off on time anymore.

My point being automation controls the markets.

Are you seriously thinking that not a single auto-trader places trades inside two minutes.

[Trader Pat]

Whatch how the market moves in a Hi/Lo 60 second range from +5:00 to + 02:20...ish then the automation files either stop or take profits and manual traders latch on the trend that is left behind from 02:00 to 00:00 whan ALL automation stops and so does any volatility and volume increase. If manual traders where even 20% of the market the ladders would still be moving as UK racecourses dont seem to be able to get a race off on time anymore.

My point being automation controls the markets.

I don't dispute that automation has a big say in how the markets move, it probably accounts for most of the noise you see in the market but that doesn't mean it makes it harder for manual traders to make money. I take your point about manual traders latching onto a trend but that's just traders who cant tell if a move is real or not and are chasing the noise up and down the ladder. And also worth pointing out that its not just manual traders latching onto trends, there is a lot of automation that reacts to other automation in an endless cycle of bots chasing the noise. Theres actually lots of bots at play that aim to trigger other bots into action.

And not all automation stops at post time, some will go right up until the horses jump off.

[Derek27]

The majority of traders lose! You've got it the wrong way round, automation takes a, b, c and d into consideration, manual traders take anything and everything they wish to into consideration, the elements are infinite. Manual traders often profit from poorly-programmed bots that miss non-runners and reduction factors.

Automation files single out the main contributing factors and apply them at great speed, you cannot do this manually unless you are Steven Hawkins. The idea our brains bandwith is faster or superior to an automated software is a bit absurd.

Perhaps your brain is inferior to a space invaders game, but mine isn't. It all depends who's written the software. Auto and manual trading both have their own advantages and disadvantages - one is not better than the other, and that is why so many people try to harness and get the best of both of them. Take for example, the badly injured tennis player. Automation can only programmatically guess what's going on in the market, manual traders can see.

[ShaunWhite]

Looks like most of us are destined to be very ordinary

Very surprised to see my country in the green, don't know where you got this image from but that is highly inaccurate. From my experience our average IQ seems to be around the low 50ish range. Luckily I was blessed with an unnaturally high IQ of 69, plus it helps to be one of the only two people in my country that can afford internet, the other would be Madam President.

I don't really understand that graphic, the average IQ score is always 100, and your personal score tells you your IQ ranking compared to that. So if all those are <100 then where's the >100s ?

[Kai]

Automation files single out the main contributing factors and apply them at great speed, you cannot do this manually unless you are Steven Hawkins.

Sorry for going offtopic, would hate to derail this thread but just a quick question if you guys don't mind, who the hell is Steven Hawkins?!

My searches are coming up empty, he sounds as interesting as that Pete Webber guy.