Has anyone else noticed it is sometimes taking several clicks to cancel a bet?
I has happened on both of the races so far today for me and looking in the log it is say:
11/09/2009 13:55:30: Bet moved on ladder - Modify bet ********* from ***.00 @ 5.5 to ***.00 @ 5.5
11/09/2009 13:55:32: Bet moved on ladder - Modify bet ********* from ***.00 @ 5.5 to ***.00 @ 5.5
(Obviously without the ****)
Then on the third click it cancels the bet.
It has cost me a bit already today and is something I have noticed the last few days happening but thought I mustn't have clicked properly but it is happening time and again now.
Anyone else?
Cancelling Bets problem
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andyfuller
- Posts: 4619
- Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:23 pm
Right I have this figured out I think and what is causing it.
When you click on a bet it cancels it.
However, if between pressing down the button on your mouse and releasing it you move the mouse in the slightest (and I mean the slightest) the software treats it as a bet movement and not a cancel.
So if I move the mouse even a millimetre or 2 it treats it as a bet movement rather than a cancel.
This occurs even if the pointer never leaves the price box. So if I click to cancel a Lay in the 5.8 stake box and between pressing the button down and releasing it the mouse moves at all, but remains in the 5.8 stake box, the software is treating it as a bet movement.
IMO this should be changed so that if the cursor remains in the same stake box it treats it as a cancel, if the pointer leaves the stake box it treats it as a movement.
I have just tested the above on 2 other commercially available pieces of trading software and both do it as I suggest it should be done and therefore there is no issue if the mouse moves slightly.
Any chance of changing it Bet Angel?
When you click on a bet it cancels it.
However, if between pressing down the button on your mouse and releasing it you move the mouse in the slightest (and I mean the slightest) the software treats it as a bet movement and not a cancel.
So if I move the mouse even a millimetre or 2 it treats it as a bet movement rather than a cancel.
This occurs even if the pointer never leaves the price box. So if I click to cancel a Lay in the 5.8 stake box and between pressing the button down and releasing it the mouse moves at all, but remains in the 5.8 stake box, the software is treating it as a bet movement.
IMO this should be changed so that if the cursor remains in the same stake box it treats it as a cancel, if the pointer leaves the stake box it treats it as a movement.
I have just tested the above on 2 other commercially available pieces of trading software and both do it as I suggest it should be done and therefore there is no issue if the mouse moves slightly.
Any chance of changing it Bet Angel?
What greening problem?
Nobody has really reported the cancel move option as an issue before and we haven't really seen it as an issue despite using the ladder every day. I wonder if there is some additional setting that may be changing the way the move is instructed.
The problem you will have if we change to the other method is if you go to move your bet but change your mind you will now cancel it. So if you were waiting to be filled but got nervous, went to move the bet but then changed your mind you will cancel the bet and have to re-enter it and go to the back of the order queue?
Nobody has really reported the cancel move option as an issue before and we haven't really seen it as an issue despite using the ladder every day. I wonder if there is some additional setting that may be changing the way the move is instructed.
The problem you will have if we change to the other method is if you go to move your bet but change your mind you will now cancel it. So if you were waiting to be filled but got nervous, went to move the bet but then changed your mind you will cancel the bet and have to re-enter it and go to the back of the order queue?
Here is a quick test we did. Can you send us a video if you are seeing anything different.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnuR9O7b_As
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnuR9O7b_As
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andyfuller
- Posts: 4619
- Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:23 pm
That video doesn't seem to work for me - it comes up saying it is private?
I appreciate that others haven't reported the problem before but I have spoken to two other users of BA and both once I explained it realised that issues they had had before with regards to cancelling bets were because of this, so I think others have experienced it but not realised as obviously it doesn't happen every time they cancel a bet.
Re. moving the bet and changing your mind, I don't really agree with what you say. If people go to move their bet they will click the amount and drag it up from say 5.8 to 6.2 and keep their button pressed down, if they decide they don't want to actually move it my guess is that almost everyone just drags it off to the side and releases it. I wouldn't have thought many move the pointer back down to the 5.8 box?
Also I wouldn't have thought many people when moving a bet click the amount at 5.8 hold the button down and keep it at 5.8 and then if they decide to move it then move it as this is pointless I would have thought. If this is how people do it then yes it would cancel the bet.
The mouse I use is a highly responsive gaming mouse with a very high DPI rather than a more standard mouse so that may also be why I see it more than others.
I think the bet not cancelling is much more of an issue as the mouse can easily move a fraction between pressing down and releasing. What happened to me yesterday was that I went to cancel and the bet didn't cancel, the market suspended and despite being a few ticks away from the LTP it was taken in the SP proccess meaning I was now left with an Inplay position, you will know what happens next....
I spoke to Jimrobo who posts on the forum yesterday about it and he says he no longer clicks the amount on the ladder because of this issue and uses the cancel button at the top of the ladder or the cancel all button...so it does seem to be affecting people.
I will do a video for you and send the link in to support, if you can let me know about the link for your video I will take a look and I would be interested to hear what you have to say about the bet movement I discussed above, my view is that it should be changed to how other vendors do it but of course it is up to you guys and you are free to do it as you want.
I appreciate that others haven't reported the problem before but I have spoken to two other users of BA and both once I explained it realised that issues they had had before with regards to cancelling bets were because of this, so I think others have experienced it but not realised as obviously it doesn't happen every time they cancel a bet.
Re. moving the bet and changing your mind, I don't really agree with what you say. If people go to move their bet they will click the amount and drag it up from say 5.8 to 6.2 and keep their button pressed down, if they decide they don't want to actually move it my guess is that almost everyone just drags it off to the side and releases it. I wouldn't have thought many move the pointer back down to the 5.8 box?
Also I wouldn't have thought many people when moving a bet click the amount at 5.8 hold the button down and keep it at 5.8 and then if they decide to move it then move it as this is pointless I would have thought. If this is how people do it then yes it would cancel the bet.
The mouse I use is a highly responsive gaming mouse with a very high DPI rather than a more standard mouse so that may also be why I see it more than others.
I think the bet not cancelling is much more of an issue as the mouse can easily move a fraction between pressing down and releasing. What happened to me yesterday was that I went to cancel and the bet didn't cancel, the market suspended and despite being a few ticks away from the LTP it was taken in the SP proccess meaning I was now left with an Inplay position, you will know what happens next....
I spoke to Jimrobo who posts on the forum yesterday about it and he says he no longer clicks the amount on the ladder because of this issue and uses the cancel button at the top of the ladder or the cancel all button...so it does seem to be affecting people.
I will do a video for you and send the link in to support, if you can let me know about the link for your video I will take a look and I would be interested to hear what you have to say about the bet movement I discussed above, my view is that it should be changed to how other vendors do it but of course it is up to you guys and you are free to do it as you want.
There is obviously some other issue here as we don't see it and it's not something that has been raised often. The DPI could be cause. We will respond with the video we have uploaded and you can see the difference, it doesn't appear to occur for us at this end.
Just dropped you the email. If could be useful if you detail the mouse you use and the settings you have. We can only real solve the problem if we can replicate it, if that means buying a mouse and copying your set up then we can try that.
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andyfuller
- Posts: 4619
- Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:23 pm
Cheers for the email though I don't think you really did what I was doing - I will give more info in my reply email.
In terms of what mouse I am using, I am using a Logitech G9 on a Windows Vista PC running version 1.22.0 of BA
However, I do not think it is the mouse at all, I have just tested it on my Asus Eeepc 1000HE running XP and used both version 1.22.0 and the older 1.21.0 using the built in mouse pad and it was exactly the same, not cancelling bets if you move the mouse.
I then tried my Logitech VX Nano on the Asus Laptop and it was exactly the same, not cancelling bets if you move the mouse.
I then tried it back on my PC using my Microsoft Wireless Optical Mouse 2.0A - you guessed it, same issue.
So I would be pretty confident ruling out either my computer, or mouse. I think it is something in the software.
In terms of what mouse I am using, I am using a Logitech G9 on a Windows Vista PC running version 1.22.0 of BA
However, I do not think it is the mouse at all, I have just tested it on my Asus Eeepc 1000HE running XP and used both version 1.22.0 and the older 1.21.0 using the built in mouse pad and it was exactly the same, not cancelling bets if you move the mouse.
I then tried my Logitech VX Nano on the Asus Laptop and it was exactly the same, not cancelling bets if you move the mouse.
I then tried it back on my PC using my Microsoft Wireless Optical Mouse 2.0A - you guessed it, same issue.
So I would be pretty confident ruling out either my computer, or mouse. I think it is something in the software.
Have to say, we can't replicate any error at our end?
If you click and hold the button down it will move the bet, if you release on the same number it assumes you have changed your mind and leaves the bet there unchanged. Else you cancel the bet and have to replace it and go to the back of the order queue. Thats why we implemented the click once to cancel and click and hold to move. We allow some leeway in mouse movement on this. If you click and don't hold the button down the bet is cancelled. It's always been this way.
Are you saying that the bet is not cancelling when you just click once?
If you click and hold the button down it will move the bet, if you release on the same number it assumes you have changed your mind and leaves the bet there unchanged. Else you cancel the bet and have to replace it and go to the back of the order queue. Thats why we implemented the click once to cancel and click and hold to move. We allow some leeway in mouse movement on this. If you click and don't hold the button down the bet is cancelled. It's always been this way.
Are you saying that the bet is not cancelling when you just click once?
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andyfuller
- Posts: 4619
- Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:23 pm
This whole thing isn't an error as such...it is just how the application has been designed.
If you:
1. Place a £2 bet at 5.8
2. Now click on the £2 bet at the left of the stake box and keep the button pressed down.
3. Staying within the stake box move to the right of the stake box still with the mouse button pressed down, the speed at which this is done makes no dfference.
4. Still within the stake box (the mouse should not have left the stake box at all) release the mouse button.
5. The bet does not cancel
6. It is treated as the bet being moved from 5.8 to 5.8
Now this is clearly how the software has been written and therefore this is not an error as such.
But I think it would be better if the following happens:
1. Place a £2 bet at 5.8
2. Now click on the £2 bet at the left of the stake box and keep the button pressed down.
3. Staying within the stake box move to the right of the stake box still with the mouse button pressed down, the speed at which this is done makes no dfference.
4. Still within the stake box (the mouse should not have left the stake box at all) release the mouse button.
5. The bet does cancel
This is how all other pieces of trading software I have used have been written.
The current method used in Bet Angel means that if between pressing down on the mouse button and releasing the mouse button you move the mouse at all, be it a 1mm or 1cm, but remain in the same stake box it thinks you are moving the bet from the current price to the current price.
I would have thought that no one or almost no one does the following when changing their mind about moving a bet:
1. Place a £2 bet at 5.8
2. Then click on the £2 bet and keep the button pressed down.
3. Move to say 6.2 (still holding down on the button)
4. Then change their mind
***This is the bit I assume no one or very few do***
5. Return to 5.8
6. Release the mouse button
******************
If you change your mind you just move the mouse off the side or over one of the other columns where you get the no entry sign, why would you return to 5.8 in order to release it?
Perhaps I am not explaining myself very well....
If you:
1. Place a £2 bet at 5.8
2. Now click on the £2 bet at the left of the stake box and keep the button pressed down.
3. Staying within the stake box move to the right of the stake box still with the mouse button pressed down, the speed at which this is done makes no dfference.
4. Still within the stake box (the mouse should not have left the stake box at all) release the mouse button.
5. The bet does not cancel
6. It is treated as the bet being moved from 5.8 to 5.8
Now this is clearly how the software has been written and therefore this is not an error as such.
But I think it would be better if the following happens:
1. Place a £2 bet at 5.8
2. Now click on the £2 bet at the left of the stake box and keep the button pressed down.
3. Staying within the stake box move to the right of the stake box still with the mouse button pressed down, the speed at which this is done makes no dfference.
4. Still within the stake box (the mouse should not have left the stake box at all) release the mouse button.
5. The bet does cancel
This is how all other pieces of trading software I have used have been written.
The current method used in Bet Angel means that if between pressing down on the mouse button and releasing the mouse button you move the mouse at all, be it a 1mm or 1cm, but remain in the same stake box it thinks you are moving the bet from the current price to the current price.
If you release on the same number it doesn't assume you have changed your mind, it only does this if you have moved the mouse at all. If you have clicked, held it for 30 seconds without moving the mouse and then release it, it still assumes you want to cancel it as you have not moved the mouse (This is correct imo).Bet Angel wrote: if you release on the same number it assumes you have changed your mind and leaves the bet there unchanged. Else you cancel the bet and have to replace it and go to the back of the order queue.
I would have thought that no one or almost no one does the following when changing their mind about moving a bet:
1. Place a £2 bet at 5.8
2. Then click on the £2 bet and keep the button pressed down.
3. Move to say 6.2 (still holding down on the button)
4. Then change their mind
***This is the bit I assume no one or very few do***
5. Return to 5.8
6. Release the mouse button
******************
If you change your mind you just move the mouse off the side or over one of the other columns where you get the no entry sign, why would you return to 5.8 in order to release it?
Perhaps I am not explaining myself very well....
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andyfuller
- Posts: 4619
- Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:23 pm
Here is a video I have done that I hope fully explains the problem/suggestion:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7Onzu3c6UQ
I would still like to hear your views on this as I consider this a problem as it has led to many cancelling issues for me that have cost me money....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7Onzu3c6UQ
I would still like to hear your views on this as I consider this a problem as it has led to many cancelling issues for me that have cost me money....