Trading from South East Asia
Is there anyone in here from South East Asia trading horse racing market efficiently? I find out that I have to struggle to trade with the latency from here to bet angel server around 340ms and vary day by day. Is there any suggest for improvement?.
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JollyGreen
- Posts: 2046
- Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:06 am
Hi
I suppose the first question is a simple one, are you trading from a country where it is legal? I suppose it won't make that difference if you have chosen to do it anyway but I wouldn't want to offer anything illegal- if you get my meaning
The next thing, is are you a British subject with a British funded Betfair account? If not, they will route you via their malta operation and this will add to the delay!
To be honest you need to consider the VPS option as this will allow a fast connection to Betfair and you would need just the video data refresh on your PC. Admittedly it is not as fast as being in the UK but it should be better than your current setup. I traded from Singapore via a VPS and it was absolutely fine.
If you want any more advice then simply ask.
HTH
JG
I suppose the first question is a simple one, are you trading from a country where it is legal? I suppose it won't make that difference if you have chosen to do it anyway but I wouldn't want to offer anything illegal- if you get my meaning
The next thing, is are you a British subject with a British funded Betfair account? If not, they will route you via their malta operation and this will add to the delay!
To be honest you need to consider the VPS option as this will allow a fast connection to Betfair and you would need just the video data refresh on your PC. Admittedly it is not as fast as being in the UK but it should be better than your current setup. I traded from Singapore via a VPS and it was absolutely fine.
If you want any more advice then simply ask.
HTH
JG
Hi Jolly!
I trade from Vietnam and it is legal. I just want to improve the performance of the software since It make me so annoying. For ur next question, I trade using US dollar so does that mean that my response time to betfair will higher than if using british pound?.how to resolve this problem?.
I did try VPS from betangel before but rekon that it only help my order submit faster and nothing else. If you dont mind my I ask you some specific question:
1/what is ur local internet connection ?
2/ what is the response time to betfair using ur local connection?. and how do you adjust the refresh rate and dynamic tuner?
I trade from Vietnam and it is legal. I just want to improve the performance of the software since It make me so annoying. For ur next question, I trade using US dollar so does that mean that my response time to betfair will higher than if using british pound?.how to resolve this problem?.
I did try VPS from betangel before but rekon that it only help my order submit faster and nothing else. If you dont mind my I ask you some specific question:
1/what is ur local internet connection ?
2/ what is the response time to betfair using ur local connection?. and how do you adjust the refresh rate and dynamic tuner?
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JollyGreen
- Posts: 2046
- Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:06 am
My normal response is between 40-60ms and that is a cable internet. I have ADSL as a back up and that is usually 60-90ms. On my VPS the response is usually 0-15ms.ndtcbet wrote:Hi Jolly!
1/what is ur local internet connection ?
2/ what is the response time to betfair using ur local connection?. and how do you adjust the refresh rate and dynamic tuner?
I would suggest you try adjusting the dynamic tuner (when you are not trading) up and down and test out the settings to see if you can improve them.
Are you a UK citizen with a Betfair account funded from a UK bank account? If not then you will be routed via an extra hop to Malta.....it may have changed but I know that is what used to happen.
The bottom line is no matter what you do locally to your connection you still have to connect to betfair which is several thousand miles away and that is why your connection is slow. This is something you cannot change. You either have to accept the speed you have or move closer to the exchange. Changing the dynamic connection tuner isn;t going to counteract the massive distance you have to reach the exchange.
To Jolly:
I'm not a UK resident when I deposit to betfair I use entropay. You mention on the post that ur local internet connection resonse time about 40ms. Is it a optical fibre?. what is the speed of it?. I just wondering that how you could that response time since Singapore close to Vietnam.Eventhough,your country'internet infrastructure outperform my local one but the distance from Singapore to UK is so long. What I use for trading now is an optical fibre with the speed to oversea about 6Mb/s. May I ask you another question: Are you UK citizen and funded BF from UK account? If so, probably, your assumption about the route to BF via Malta for non UK resident may correct. Anyway, really glad to know that there are some trader from South East Asia as you.
To Jimrobo:
I agree with you, but the thing is not only the response time. If the response time is 340 I"m still able to trade.Another problem I meet is my response time vary day by day doesnt not stable at all. And I experience some delays or freeze of the enhance lader chart( i use to look at it while I trade). I try to figure it out why it happen bcos it affect my trading decision alot. Is there any suggestion?.
I'm not a UK resident when I deposit to betfair I use entropay. You mention on the post that ur local internet connection resonse time about 40ms. Is it a optical fibre?. what is the speed of it?. I just wondering that how you could that response time since Singapore close to Vietnam.Eventhough,your country'internet infrastructure outperform my local one but the distance from Singapore to UK is so long. What I use for trading now is an optical fibre with the speed to oversea about 6Mb/s. May I ask you another question: Are you UK citizen and funded BF from UK account? If so, probably, your assumption about the route to BF via Malta for non UK resident may correct. Anyway, really glad to know that there are some trader from South East Asia as you.
To Jimrobo:
I agree with you, but the thing is not only the response time. If the response time is 340 I"m still able to trade.Another problem I meet is my response time vary day by day doesnt not stable at all. And I experience some delays or freeze of the enhance lader chart( i use to look at it while I trade). I try to figure it out why it happen bcos it affect my trading decision alot. Is there any suggestion?.
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JollyGreen
- Posts: 2046
- Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:06 am
Hang on guys, I think my post was misleading........sorry!bilko wrote:JollyGreen Thats an outstanding response time from SingaporeMy response time is 75 to 100 5mbs speed from Northern Ireland.
Think I should move to Singapore.
I traded in Singapore...past tense...I do not recall the response times. I foolishly assumed it was obvious my location was now the UK so I apologise for the mistake.
I have traded via a VPS from many countries without a problem.
Some of this depends on where your account is domiciled and how you are connecting to the Betfair.
Using a VPS I can connect to the UK between 0-15ms from pretty much anywhere in the world. But if you are an international customer then all your calls get routed through Malta first. However if you are using a VPS then the calls will go from London to Malta and back again, rather confusingly. But this will be a lot quicker than from a local connection (some other place) to London or Malta and finally back to London.
Using a VPS I can connect to the UK between 0-15ms from pretty much anywhere in the world. But if you are an international customer then all your calls get routed through Malta first. However if you are using a VPS then the calls will go from London to Malta and back again, rather confusingly. But this will be a lot quicker than from a local connection (some other place) to London or Malta and finally back to London.
Because the server is in the UK, you remote desktop to it: -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remote_Desktop_Services.
That way you always get a fast response time from Betfair's servers as the host running the software is very near to their servers in the UK. If you connect from abroad using the software locally in that country connecting to the Betfair servers you have a huge round trip to get the odds and all masses of data that we have to poll from Betfair. A lot of data to pull over a very long distance makes for a tough, sluggish trading environment.
When you remote desktop to a server you still have the latency of a mouse click to do something but the remote data pulled to the local remote desktop client is significantly smaller than if you tried to run it locally, this makes it much more viable to trade from overseas.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remote_Desktop_Services.
That way you always get a fast response time from Betfair's servers as the host running the software is very near to their servers in the UK. If you connect from abroad using the software locally in that country connecting to the Betfair servers you have a huge round trip to get the odds and all masses of data that we have to poll from Betfair. A lot of data to pull over a very long distance makes for a tough, sluggish trading environment.
When you remote desktop to a server you still have the latency of a mouse click to do something but the remote data pulled to the local remote desktop client is significantly smaller than if you tried to run it locally, this makes it much more viable to trade from overseas.
Hi,
BetAngel, I wonder if you could clarify how you connect to the UK at 0-15ms from almost anywhere in the world (surely you mean that's the approx response between VPS and BF Exchange?) given the speed of light travels at approx 186 miles per millisecond traveling through a vacuum?(Remember that number).
Also, with a remote desktop (or any internet traffic for that matter) the the amount of data you transfer (about 1.6kbps for 256 colors no sound) has little bearing on the response time(the ops original concern). That is a bandwidth concern.
For the OP:
A quick tech lesson:
What is a VPS? A VPS (virtual private server) is simply one physical server subdivided (usually at the operating system level)into many virtual computers which each have an allocation of system memory, disk space and cpu cycles to use. Depending on the system in use the allocations may be static or burstable, its kind of irrelevant here. Each sub "pc" can run its own operating system and software which is protected from the other sub "pcs". Its a good way of improving server hardware efficiency with regards to its internal resources. A VPS will use one of the network interfaces present in the physical server hardware. Typically these servers are hosted in data centers with either 100mb or 1gb connections per physical server to the internet shared between each vps operating on that physical server.
Now we know what a vps is how does this affect you?
Distance from Saigon to London is 6335.24 miles. This gives you a theoretical best response (unidirectional) of 6335/186(speed of light per millisecond) = 34ms or 68ms both ways. That's the approx quickest it could be by today's physics. In practice its never that quick (try multiplying by a factor of 6) because a)the light inst traveling through a vacuum all the way and b) the internet isn't a direct route from one pc to another and packets can be routed through many different servers en route and may be subject to delays if any of the servers en route are under load. This figure is important because this is the delay you will experience between you and any VPS located in the UK which routes its traffic over the internet.
If you want to find out the actual response time use the ping tool from the command prompt. If you want to see how you data is routed use tracert "some ip" again from the command prompt. This will show you a list of servers your packets "hop" through on their way to their destination.
The BA VPS may have a nice low response time to BFHQ but your connection to the VPS will still have a similar response time as you would get from connecting directly to betfair exchange as they are pretty much next door to each other on the global scale in relation to you the origin (Not taking in to account the Malta factor).
The VPS will provide speed benefits for automatic trading and stop losses (or anything that you can set to run automatically (or be triggered) on the vps)due to its relatively close location in relation to the bf exchange(and maybe they have a direct fibre connection, who knows?)etc.
However, it is not a magic bullet that can break the laws of physics. Any manual interaction will suffer the same response delay you are accustomed to.
I hope this makes it a little clearer for you.
McTash
BetAngel, I wonder if you could clarify how you connect to the UK at 0-15ms from almost anywhere in the world (surely you mean that's the approx response between VPS and BF Exchange?) given the speed of light travels at approx 186 miles per millisecond traveling through a vacuum?(Remember that number).
Also, with a remote desktop (or any internet traffic for that matter) the the amount of data you transfer (about 1.6kbps for 256 colors no sound) has little bearing on the response time(the ops original concern). That is a bandwidth concern.
For the OP:
A quick tech lesson:
What is a VPS? A VPS (virtual private server) is simply one physical server subdivided (usually at the operating system level)into many virtual computers which each have an allocation of system memory, disk space and cpu cycles to use. Depending on the system in use the allocations may be static or burstable, its kind of irrelevant here. Each sub "pc" can run its own operating system and software which is protected from the other sub "pcs". Its a good way of improving server hardware efficiency with regards to its internal resources. A VPS will use one of the network interfaces present in the physical server hardware. Typically these servers are hosted in data centers with either 100mb or 1gb connections per physical server to the internet shared between each vps operating on that physical server.
Now we know what a vps is how does this affect you?
Distance from Saigon to London is 6335.24 miles. This gives you a theoretical best response (unidirectional) of 6335/186(speed of light per millisecond) = 34ms or 68ms both ways. That's the approx quickest it could be by today's physics. In practice its never that quick (try multiplying by a factor of 6) because a)the light inst traveling through a vacuum all the way and b) the internet isn't a direct route from one pc to another and packets can be routed through many different servers en route and may be subject to delays if any of the servers en route are under load. This figure is important because this is the delay you will experience between you and any VPS located in the UK which routes its traffic over the internet.
If you want to find out the actual response time use the ping tool from the command prompt. If you want to see how you data is routed use tracert "some ip" again from the command prompt. This will show you a list of servers your packets "hop" through on their way to their destination.
The BA VPS may have a nice low response time to BFHQ but your connection to the VPS will still have a similar response time as you would get from connecting directly to betfair exchange as they are pretty much next door to each other on the global scale in relation to you the origin (Not taking in to account the Malta factor).
The VPS will provide speed benefits for automatic trading and stop losses (or anything that you can set to run automatically (or be triggered) on the vps)due to its relatively close location in relation to the bf exchange(and maybe they have a direct fibre connection, who knows?)etc.
However, it is not a magic bullet that can break the laws of physics. Any manual interaction will suffer the same response delay you are accustomed to.
I hope this makes it a little clearer for you.
McTash
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andyfuller
- Posts: 4619
- Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:23 pm
Surely there is still the delay from your PC at home to the VPS though.Bet Angel wrote: Using a VPS I can connect to the UK between 0-15ms from pretty much anywhere in the world.
I can understand if you have a bot installed on the VPS which puts the bets in and requires no input from your home PC that that is operating with a response time of 0-15ms.
However, when trading 'normally' the information still has to get from the VPS to your home PC for you to see it then decide to place a bet which is done by you clicking on your home PC which then sends a message to the VPS to tell it to place a bet and then the VPS places that bet in 0-15ms. But the step between your home PC and the VPS surely isn't 0ms, thus meaning the 'real' response time is not 0-15ms?
Edit: Posted this after the reply above was given by Bet Angel. So the delay between where the bet is placed, i.e. the VPS and Betfair is 0-15ms, however, the overall response i.e. when placing a bet you clicking on your Home PC and the info that the bet has been placed getting back to you at home and you being able to see the info is bigger than 0-15ms as there is still the time between your Home PC and the VPS which is dependant on your local connection to London, UK.
Are you sure that is correct?Bet Angel wrote:But if you are an international customer then all your calls get routed through Malta first. However if you are using a VPS then the calls will go from London to Malta and back again, rather confusingly. But this will be a lot quicker than from a local connection (some other place) to London or Malta and finally back to London.
As I understand it:
UK registered customers go:
Home (Depends on your connection) > Betfair London > Home (Depends on your connection)
UK registered customers using a VPS go:
Home (Depends on your connection) > VPS (0-15ms)>Betfair London> VPS (0-15ms) > Home (Depends on your connection)
International customers go:
Home (Depends on your connection) > Betfair London (30ms) > Betfair Malta (30ms) > Betfair London (30ms) > Betfair Malta (30ms) > Betfair London (30ms) > Home (Depends on your connection)
International customers using VPS go:
Home (Depends on your connection) > VPS (0-15ms) > Betfair London (30ms) > Betfair Malta (30ms) > Betfair London (30ms) > Betfair Malta (30ms) > Betfair London (30ms) > VPS (0-15ms) > Home (Depends on your connection)
If using a bot installed on the VPS:
As above respectively for both UK registered and International Customers but remove the Home > VPS and VPS > Home steps.
This is how I have understood it using Betfair's own information:
http://bdp.betfair.com/index.php?option ... Itemid=108
I may be wrong of course but that is how I understand it all using what I have read/know.
Yes that's what I mean, sorry if you mis-interpreted what I meant. Maybe I should have used the phrase "I can achieve a refresh of 0-15ms to Betfair via the VPS" from anywhere in the world.mctash wrote:BetAngel, I wonder if you could clarify how you connect to the UK at 0-15ms from almost anywhere in the world (surely you mean that's the approx response between VPS and BF Exchange?) given the speed of light travels at approx 186 miles per millisecond traveling through a vacuum?(Remember that number).
You are under no obligation to use it, but I have found it immensely useful in the years I have used it.