Financial Trading

[superfrank]

I'm a fulltime pre-race trader, but enjoy financial trading (which I consider a hobby atm). I'm interested to know how many other Betfair traders trade financial markets, and what markets they trade, and what companies/methods they use...

I've done spread betting for many years (mainly IG index), but the problem is that most markets are untradeable because of the size of the spread - making transaction costs too large to have a realistic chance of making profits. There are exceptions (oil, major forex pairs and major indexes). The other problem is that if you make decent money your a/c will eventually get closed.

I recently started trading oil via ETFs which has been quite successful (the transaction costs are relatively small because the spreads are tight, and the dealing costs don't hurt when trading in larger amounts). The benefits are unlimited liquidity and no problem with accounts getting closed!

I'm interested to know what financial trading others Betfair traders do, and where they find value...

PS. I recently opened an FXPro account because I suspect it may be better value than spread betting, but it's far more complicated - does it work out as better value than with spread betting?

Regards.

[Krzysztof]

I recently started to trade futures markets (special thanks to jimrobo which pointed these markets some time ago). When I started I was facinated with the DAX (FDAX to be correct). I also watch Bund (FGBL). All german. You can find some vids on youtube (just type: scalping the dax). I use Velocity Futures, they allow You to use X_trader platform (which has very similar interface to betangel, because it's actually ladder interface - it is called MD trader) for free. Tranaction costs are really low and there is no spread, feels almost like betfair.

[jimrobo]

Hi guys,

Krzysztof, thats exactly the same broker I use too, wlthough I haven't had time to look at the futures stuff for a couple of months because I have been so busy on the summer racing and have just redesigned my website I run and has taken some serious work for a couple of months. I will be back in the futures markets next month though. I like X trader but I an not sure it is worth the extra 1$ per RT to use though. I am even thinking of going with AT Infinity to lower all my costs. I know some guys who get $1.50 per RT on the e mini!!

I tend to concentrate on the e mini. I have been switching between the t note and the e mini. The DAX is a bit crazy for me!! Its like a kempton park wednesday night seller! Do you do much with the DAX?

[Krzysztof]

When I started I was messing with the DAX a lot during the day, but got hammered a little and slowed down as I don't want to bust my account too early. Now I watch it more. The great thing about the dax is the tick value (which is 12.50 euro), and from my own experience it's great to trade break outs, when it pulls it often pulls like train. The bad thing is it can reverse at any time and pull the other way with the same vigour, so there is a lot of uncertainty every moment. I tend to perform really well on Kempton evening pre-race, so maybe that's why I like it. Additional 1 euro for X_trader it's not much I think as I don't use more than 1 contract at the moment and currently I don't do many RT. If I do more RT I believe I would buy subscription ($650 monthly I think).

I also watch CL (Light Crude Oil), watched e mini too, but traded only DAX and Bund.

There are plenty of markets to choose. I still don't get the real "feel" of any market, need to watch more and more but I really look forward to focus more on them.

[superfrank]

Thanks for your replies. Could you briefly explain to me what a Round Trip is (I've never come across this term before), and how the charges work?

[Krzysztof]

One Round Trip (or Round Turn) is when You open and close single contract. For example, with Velocity Futures for FDAX it is 2.86 euro with free X_trader. 1.86 when You have X_trader subscription. That amount includes all costs.

You can check Velocity's commissions here:

http://www.tradewithvelocity.com/commissions/index.aspx

You can find a lot of related info on Big Mike's forum:

http://www.bigmiketrading.com/brokers-data-feeds/

[Exacta]

Tougher markets to trade though aren't they?

[superfrank]

Thanks for your reply Krzysztof and for the links.

So I guess that a scratch trade still costs? In your opinion does this make it less suitable for scalping/shorter term trading?

Sorry for all the questions, and thanks in advance.

[Krzysztof]

I believe it is not much. If You would average (lets continue with FDAX) 1 tick profit per RT and even with X_trader free Your costs are 23% (2.86/12.5). It's almost like BF's premium charge, You would be still profitable as 77% of the profit are Yours.

Jimrobo, do You mean by t note and e mini: ES and ZN that You focus on?

[superfrank]

I opened an account with Velocity Futures (which is quite a painful online process). Krzysztof - how did you fund your account? On the VF website there are wiring instructions for GBP - I called my bank and they said I had to go into the branch to transfer funds to a US a/c - is this what you had to do? Also, what is the cost of transferring funds? (I assume the a/c balance is in USD and therefore a currency conversion is done at the time of the deposit).

Thanks.

[Bet Angel]

Shall we open a financial trading area on the forum? There is obviously a crossover of sorts and I spend a lot of time on financials so it may be fun to interesting to talk about the markets ad hoc in a seperate area?

[pt9091]

Yes, great idea something I want to look at closely as well in the coming months, also with the launch of LMAX round the corner the timing would be good.

[herbie]

yes please.. opening a financial forum would be good

[jimrobo]

Jimrobo, do You mean by t note and e mini: ES and ZN that You focus on?

Correct. thats the one. The T note is a trending market the e mini is a rotational market

[npatel999]

I'm not sure whether this is obvious but you can open an account and have access to simulator trading platform without depositing any money so ideal if you're curious to try it out. I stated in the comments box that I wanted to try simulator without depositing and I got link to download software for 7 days. I haven' yet tried it but will try in few days.

Yes it would be good to have a seaparet topic area for financial trading which I know some but not enough to venture in the dark.