APPG report recommends UK ban on 'in-play' betting

[Naffman]

The Betfair brand has got no growth, that's why they're busy buying other companies to keep that share price rocketing

[Cards37]

Why did they dilute their product with a sportsbook though? Raw greed?

I remember getting a phone call from them about it.

They, quite correctly, said that the exchange was too complex for ordinary punters so they wanted to put a front end on it. It was carefully explained to me back then that this was fully linked to the exchange and merely a portal to it. Which was fine, that sounded like a great idea. We all expressed our concern as to whether it would end up more than that.

They offered price rush so orders would get pushed to the exchange but that was quietly removed and then the cash out functionality which was linked to the exchange was also dropped.

The Breon came in as CEO and almost turned Betfair into a full-on sportsbook. Once he got his bonus of many tens of millions he buggered off and let somebody else clear up the mess.

Intriguing.

Never ceases to amaze me how many people can't be bothered to even slightly attempt to understand what's under the hood of gambling.

[ANGELS15]

On the subject of the sportsbook. I use the Betfair exchange app exclusivly. Lately Betfair seem to have 'welded' it to the sportsbook. If you deposit money into the exchange app and then try to page back to the markets you find yourself in the sportsbook app even though you may not have downloaded it. You have to close all the apps on your phone and click on the exchange app again to re-enter exchange wasting valuable time.

What pisses me off every time you try to pick yourself up some shit happens. I was in an 'entertainment' type industry part time job last year. I had been in it 15 years. However the latest boss there was a total arsehole. We were always short staffed and constantly getting bollockings for not being in 3 places at once. I left last summer. I also had some self employed work, plus I do a fair amount of 'in-play' trading fairly succesfully on Betfair. I figured I'd get by. The betfair trading was just starting to pick up around febuary/march when the pandemic happened!

Now racing has resumed I'm getting back on track. I just hope this latest restriction never happens.

[ANGELS15]

I forgot to mention what made things worse re the work is that having left the work so long ago I don't qualify for the furlough. Also I didn't qualify for the self empyment grant either as over the last 3 years my profit from the self employment has been less than 50% of my total income, hence I was really hoping to get by exchange trading back on track.

[gstar1975]

I read the report when it came out, this is how a lot of legislation starts. They go for the extreme and then make compromises on its route through parliament.

On the face of it, it's too broad and it's an anti-gambling crusade.

But that isn't differentiating between types. Some crappy bingo game, or virtual sport serves no purpose other than separating the guidable from their money. At least sport has an element of skill or entertainment about it.

You do feel the industry has shot itself in the foot. I mean look at Betfair, best innovation since gambling was invented and yet the industry has tried its hardest to bury it. Anybody using an exchange would be losing much less than anywhere else, but it's not exactly front and centre is it?

Also Betfair added a sportsbook that wasn't linked to the exchange and I'm constantly being offered crappy arcade and casino offers. Just let the exchange be the exchange and be done with all the other garbage.

Have you ever thought of opening up your own Betangel Bookmakers? My Uncle had 2 in Birmingham during the 1990's if you want any advice. He's retired now but has been using the Betfair Exchange since 2000

[Derek27]

I didn't realise price rush has been discontinued. That was the sportsbook's selling point.

[Euler]

Quietly retired in stages.

When it was introduced I checked it to see what impact it may have on the exchange, then I noticed you were getting 'rushed' on the sportsbooks and it wasn't appearing on the exchange. Betfair started nipping some margin from it.

[NickH]

To be honest I am also suspicious regarding the in-play cash-out functionality in the exchange. Always seems that they take a nible of the profit that you would get if you would just place the opposing bet yourself.

[aperson]

This would be an absolute disaster for me as I do nearly everything in play. It's actually made me quite angry, who the fuck do these people think they are? It's such a radical and arbitrary proposal written by people who clearly have a vendetta against gambling. Reading the report I kind of get the impression they would just outright ban gambling if they thought they could get away with it. I understand some of the proposals as well and don't disagree with things like restricting FOBT stakes but its seems they have just lumped all gambling into the same "evil" box without properly understanding it. I found this quote in an article and like the vodka comment.

https://www.gamblinginsider.com/news/93 ... -any-merit

"In-play sports betting cannot be restricted to venues or telephones (who uses telephones to bet nowadays, anyway, with Bet365 recently closing its telebetting service?) You cannot simply recommend the removal of a key product in any industry – this is lazy from the APPG. Why not just ban all vodka, for example?"

Really hope Euler is right and this gets watered down.

[firlandsfarm]

Can't see the difference between pre and in-play betting - it works the same. I wonder if that includes tennis and football?

My experience of the people who criticise betting and gambling is that they don't understand it at a skilled level and see those who need protection from themselves as a higher priority for salvation than those who make tax free profits! For a start they don't understand the difference between betting (a wager based on viable assessment) and gambling (a wager based purely on chance). They probably looked into in-running horses and imagined the fool thinking "that one's going to win … no this one will" and ending up staking bets on multiple runners in the frenzy of the race which as we all know is not the same as longer events such as football etc. Just my guess from discussing betting with friends who are stuck with a "the Bookie always wins" mentality.

[Naffman]

Can't see the difference between pre and in-play betting - it works the same. I wonder if that includes tennis and football?

My experience of the people who criticise betting and gambling is that they don't understand it at a skilled level and see those who need protection from themselves as a higher priority for salvation than those who make tax free profits! For a start they don't understand the difference between betting (a wager based on viable assessment) and gambling (a wager based purely on chance). They probably looked into in-running horses and imagined the fool thinking "that one's going to win … no this one will" and ending up staking bets on multiple runners in the frenzy of the race which as we all know is not the same as longer events such as football etc. Just my guess from discussing betting with friends who are stuck with a "the Bookie always wins" mentality.

You just have to look at Wimbledon/Aussie Open where officials believe courtsiders are match fixing, they really do know f all but know the media will support them

[Cards37]

Can't see the difference between pre and in-play betting - it works the same. I wonder if that includes tennis and football?

My experience of the people who criticise betting and gambling is that they don't understand it at a skilled level and see those who need protection from themselves as a higher priority for salvation than those who make tax free profits! For a start they don't understand the difference between betting (a wager based on viable assessment) and gambling (a wager based purely on chance). They probably looked into in-running horses and imagined the fool thinking "that one's going to win … no this one will" and ending up staking bets on multiple runners in the frenzy of the race which as we all know is not the same as longer events such as football etc. Just my guess from discussing betting with friends who are stuck with a "the Bookie always wins" mentality.

This was my earlier point. The problem is the "all gambling is bad" crowd are usually appeased when the government introduces measures that to joe public look like they are cracking down on gambling, but in reality usually attack the intelligent profitable avenues and encourage people into the -EV avenues that just happen to generate more tax revenue and make more money for the gambling operators.

WItness the Australian experience where despite campaigns for decades against slot machines they remain untouched (because they are guaranteed to generate a ton of revenue for both operators and government) but we have been banned from playing online poker "to protect us from unscrupulous foreign entities" - but which can be beaten and generates no tax revenue.

[aperson]

I don't fully understand when people are critical of successful gamblers and treat them all as evil while treating anyone who is unsuccessful as a victim, particularly when it comes to exchanges. At the end of the day the people who are successful are just taking money off people who are trying to take money off of them, it's not like they are all innocent bystanders. And do people really believe that there is an inherent difference in morality between both sets of people? You better believe an awful lot of failed gamblers wouldn't shed a tear if they had turned out to be successful. When someone asks about my gambling critically I wonder if they would prefer it if I was losing, and also whether they have ever entered the lottery and dreamed of winning. Presumably if they did they would give all the money to charity and work as a nurse or teacher to help wider society. I say this while fully accepting that addiction is a real problem, and that tightening up some aspects of the industry isn't a bad thing.

Some, (many?), people just seem to hate gambling in any form in an irrational way. They apply arguments to it which could just as easily be applied to drinking and yet in my experience very few of these people would ever want to ban alcohol. In fact many of these same people will criticise the closing of pubs.

Regarding the specifics of this it seems the main argument against in play is that it is addictive due to the quick and repetitive nature of the bets placed. But this surely only applies to niche markets like number of corners in the next 5 minutes and the like. You simply can't make this argument when talking about match odds, correct score etc as they take a full 90 minutes to settle. Obviously with caveats about cash out and trading but that doesn't seem to be mentioned in the paper. If you are going to apply this argument why not ban all horse and greyhound betting full stop as they are very regular.

[ANGELS15]

The irony is that many if not most punters are unaware of the facility to bet in-running (on racing at least) on the exchange. It is an opportunity that is greatly underexploited. There was a similar drive in the labour party a couple of years ago to try and ban in-play betting. There was a strong counter argument at the time that there was no evidence that in-play betting was anymore 'damaging' than regular betting.

[aperson]

The irony is that many if not most punters are unaware of the facility to bet in-running (on racing at least) on the exchange. It is an opportunity that is greatly underexploited. There was a similar drive in the labour party a couple of years ago to try and ban in-play betting. There was a strong counter argument at the time that there was no evidence that in-play betting was anymore 'damaging' than regular betting.

That's reassuring. Without trying to get too party political about this it's a strange world to be in where Ian Duncan Smith is against private profit and is handing out morality lessons..