Help on trading screen - market indicators?

[Monstrs]

Hi, I am a rather new trader. I average around 30 GBP per day with my 250 GBP bank after two months or trading.

I am trading with nothing but my laptop (I am planning to upgrade ASAP)and I have attached a screenshot of my trading screen.

You can see what I am looking at when trading. The indicators below are custom made - they are last traded price with moving average (in red) updated every 500 ms. I find them very useful.

The question is - what is missing? Can you point out some other important indicators which I should take into account and which are not included in my set up?

I miss live pictures and comments for sure. I also do not look at the book over round (no place to add it here ) but I am also not sure if book over round parameter is necessary at all.

If you could share some experience or even your own screenshot - that would be very much appreciated!

cheers,

M

[hgodden]

Its probably not what you want to hear but probably the main thing you are missing is experience. Once you have more markets under your belt you will be able to use the indicators you are looking at now more efficiently. In any case £30 profit from a 250 bank after 2 months is very good so well done keep it up and try not to get too impatient about making millions!

[Monstrs]

Please don't get me wrong, I am not frustrated with my results or my set up and I am not looking for an easy answer that will multiply my profits

I am just looking for a sound advice of improvements I could do with my set up. I went through at least 7 different versions until ended up with this one.

Maybe I am not good at browsing but it is really hard to find any advice on which exact graphs and parameters pros take into account when trading.

[Quinny]

Hi Monstrs

I can't tell you which indicators you should take in to account because your strategy is unique to you.

All the features of Bet Angel are useful in some context, you have to learn which you get along with the best.

Book Overround. Now... for me it is the number one indicator paramount to my trading strategy. It gives me more information than any other single indicator.

There is a book written by Malcolm Howard 'The Betting Market As A Guide To Winners' it was written before exchanges in about 1998, he gives a fascinating insight in to whys and wherefores(sp) of the bookies overround and how the betting market works and how to spot 'insider trading' (call it what you will.

If I were to task you to spend a month, in your spare time, to learn all you could about the bookies margin and then challenge you to never use it in your trading, you would forever feel you were at a severe disadvantage. I would also guess that if you then spent another month using nothing more than Betfair standard interface, relying almost entirely on the overround, trading the favourite only you would make better returns than you are now.

Chuck in BA and a few of it's great features and you have a great arsenal (never thought I would use those last three words in the same sentence. That one's for Adster, lol!)

Good luck and I hope you give Overround a secind chance. It is a loyal and faithful friend.

[Monstrs]

Thanks Quinny! This is the kind of advice I was hoping for

Now I will definitely have a closer look at the book over round again!

I am personally a bit sceptical with it because how can you know that in the situation when the parameter is at e.g. 108% the shortening of the book will take place exactly on the horse you have put a lay bet? The book can go back to "normal" 104% thanks to few other horses while the odds of your horse keeps on drifting. That is at least what I was thinking when I decided to not base my decisions on it.

Nevertheless I will be doing some more research on this from now and maybe I will be proven wrong.

[Quinny]

I am not suggesting you become a master to it, let it be your eyes and ears.

Let it help you with entry and exit.

Learn to use it in association with volume - this is where I find BA's market overview feature invaluable.

If I asked you what the average o/r was for a low grade 16 runner maiden 2yo race was with an odds on fav. could you tell me? I can tell you, and that means in some situations I could eat you alive! Do you see now how vulnerable that could make you?


Also, we are talking generalities, that is important to remember. Where people are involved there is no exact science. Understand the math and at the same time, appreciate the market is also driven by emotion and psychology.


A question for you to consider with regard to staking... (bearing in mind that o/r has some effect as to wether your order gets taken - had you realised that?) do you adjust your stakes if the o/r is being squeezed?

I hope I have given you a sense that this is a subject you need to be a bit more familiar with, I can't imagine a successful trader not knowing the ins and outs of o/r.

[Smokey]

The higher the OR the higher the volatility & vice versa.
Some thrive when the 'ball' bounces about a lot.
Basketball prices 'bounce' big.
feel your way in

[hgodden]

Interesting stuff Quinny. Funnily enough OR is something I've never paid a great deal of attention to but still do well with my own strategies. I suppose it's like you say everyone has their own unique strategies and indicators for those. That's one of the great things about the exchanges there is so much going on that there must be 100s of different successful strategies that different people are using

[Monstrs]

Thanks for the advices on the subject! I know I have lots to learn yet and I definitely will.

As for now I adjust my stakes only to the altitude of odds when I am entering the market. Getting matched is easy when trading with such small bets as mine, but I see your point Quinney when it comes to bets of several hundreds or thousands.

But what do you think of the set up I have?

It is true, one must adapt the set up to his strategy, but I think there are essential graphs of the market with fundamental information that everybody needs to see and take into account to base their strategy on facts whatever the strategy might be.

For example I switched from one ladder to 3 ladders and at the same day my judgement improved at once as I could finally see the volume/price movements and opportunities of other 2 horses that of course are connected to the first one.

The BF generated price & volume graphs are also very important imo and I would never want to trade without them.

[to75ne]

to reinforce quinny's suggestion -

i was looking aroung the net for something (not to unrelated to this post) and i found this free pdf for a book i read several years ago "the art of book making by malcolm boyle".

http://www.aboveallodds.com/media/The_A ... making.pdf

the geezer was a odds compilier. this might help in understanding how to use overround as a entry/exit point
signal (never on its own).

just to add that a better book titled the "the art of legging by c.sidney" is well worth a read. the second half goes into the maths of overround/underround deeply. the first half is basically the history of bookmaking.