Just change for yourself the "roads" word in the start of the song for the "odds" and you will feel much better if you get somthing wrong
It`s realy helpTrading Anger Management
I got off to a terrible start today, losing about £25 of a ~£125 bank in the first race, due to a silly error.
But partly thanks to the classical music from the movies CD I was listening to, I've managed to stay positive and focused and pull it back!
There's nothing like the music from Raiders of the Lost Ark and Dambusters to lift your mood!
Jeff
But partly thanks to the classical music from the movies CD I was listening to, I've managed to stay positive and focused and pull it back!
There's nothing like the music from Raiders of the Lost Ark and Dambusters to lift your mood!
Jeff
petardo wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wfYIMyS_dI
Just change for yourself the "roads" word in the start of the song for the "odds" and you will feel much better if you get somthing wrong
I got off to a terrible start today, I was down about £180 from the first race!! but to be honest that's nothing since later on I went in play and blew about £900 and ended the day on -£1050
I really wish I was joking.
I really wish I was joking.
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oddstrader
- Posts: 344
- Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2010 4:55 pm
- Location: Surrey
thats a tough blow mate!
Holy smoke Rhys
When you lose, you like to lose in style don't you!
I think your trading anger, and your inability to occasionally stop yourself going 'in play' when a trade has gone wrong, are pyschologically related.
You are clearly successful to still be full-time, but you clearly have aspects of your trading that needs addressing
I'm not being rude in saying that, I've been self-employed for nearly 3 years and am constantly looking for ways to improve my trading performance
When you lose, you like to lose in style don't you!
I think your trading anger, and your inability to occasionally stop yourself going 'in play' when a trade has gone wrong, are pyschologically related.
You are clearly successful to still be full-time, but you clearly have aspects of your trading that needs addressing
I'm not being rude in saying that, I've been self-employed for nearly 3 years and am constantly looking for ways to improve my trading performance
I`m very angry.I counted very wrong exit possition for few times today. Was little worry to close just before match ,but anyway my stupid mistakes. I cut my earnings today at least 1.5K lower 
I have to fully trust myself and not the market.One match to do. Santander vs Sevila
I have to fully trust myself and not the market.One match to do. Santander vs SevilaOuch!
My advice would be to list the excuses you tell yourself when you go in play.
Then destroy them - prove to yourself that going in-play as a strategy is a non-starter, which will hurt you emotionally and financially.
Convince yourself that going in-play is a form of self-harm and therefore unacceptable. Don't give yourself any wiggle room along the lines of 'Well, in some circumstances, you can make a case for it'.
BTW, on a more positive note, I remember you writing on the forum that you make 1K a week. So something to remember when you're having a bad day is that you have a rare skill which makes your situation better than that of at least 90% of the population.
Jeff
My advice would be to list the excuses you tell yourself when you go in play.
Then destroy them - prove to yourself that going in-play as a strategy is a non-starter, which will hurt you emotionally and financially.
Convince yourself that going in-play is a form of self-harm and therefore unacceptable. Don't give yourself any wiggle room along the lines of 'Well, in some circumstances, you can make a case for it'.
BTW, on a more positive note, I remember you writing on the forum that you make 1K a week. So something to remember when you're having a bad day is that you have a rare skill which makes your situation better than that of at least 90% of the population.
Jeff
rhysmr2 wrote:I got off to a terrible start today, I was down about £180 from the first race!! but to be honest that's nothing since later on I went in play and blew about £900 and ended the day on -£1050
I really wish I was joking.
Sh***********te Rhys, thats a big hit. The ability to accept losses does not come naturally to all of us (including me). It plays a large part in determining just how far an individual can go in the world of trading.
I suspect the big traders that you read about can move easily on or even become more focused after a loss giving them that edge.
Have you ever considered NLP? Trading is all about psychology.
An NLP practitioner may well be able to help you by changing your perspective/reaction when you get a loss. This could then lead to stopping you from "trading angrily". (maybe help you to enjoy the trading more)
City traders have been known to use NLP to help them trade more effectively (control the desire to chase losses/fear of losing).
I have considered it in the past i know it can be very powerful tool if you know how to use it. The brain can be very effectively re-programmed (see Derren Brown!)
You clearly are a good trader (although it may not feel like it now) and not far away from really being one of the top dogs.
Get this issue sorted and you will make it.
I suspect the big traders that you read about can move easily on or even become more focused after a loss giving them that edge.
Have you ever considered NLP? Trading is all about psychology.
An NLP practitioner may well be able to help you by changing your perspective/reaction when you get a loss. This could then lead to stopping you from "trading angrily". (maybe help you to enjoy the trading more)
City traders have been known to use NLP to help them trade more effectively (control the desire to chase losses/fear of losing).
I have considered it in the past i know it can be very powerful tool if you know how to use it. The brain can be very effectively re-programmed (see Derren Brown!)
You clearly are a good trader (although it may not feel like it now) and not far away from really being one of the top dogs.
Get this issue sorted and you will make it.
Just to add to what Yantraman said, you might want to get one of Paul McKenna's books.
Even if you're sceptical about hypnosis or NLP, his books are interesting and inspiring, and his recordings (included on a CD with his books) are relaxing.
Jeff
Even if you're sceptical about hypnosis or NLP, his books are interesting and inspiring, and his recordings (included on a CD with his books) are relaxing.
Jeff
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oddstrader
- Posts: 344
- Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2010 4:55 pm
- Location: Surrey
trading in the zone has some good content for traders, link attached ,
http://www.mediafire.com/?znnl0bmxzdx
http://www.mediafire.com/?znnl0bmxzdx
Hi Oddstrader
It's a great book.
IMHO, these two quotes more or less sum up its key messages:
"As long as you are susceptible to the lands of errors that are the result of rationalizing, justifying, hesitating, hoping, and jumping the gun, you will not be able to trust yourself. If you can't trust yourself to be objective and to always act in your own best interests, achieving consistent results will be next to impossible. Trying to do something that looks so simple may well be the most exasperating thing you will ever attempt to do. The irony is that, when you have the appropriate attitude, when you have acquired a "trader’s mind-set" and can remain confident in the face of constant uncertainty, trading will be as easy and simple as you probably thought it was when you first started out."
And:
"For those who have learned how to be consistent, or have broken through what I call the "threshold of consistency,"the money is not only within their grasp; they can virtually take it at will. I'm sure that some will find this statement shocking or difficult to believe, but it is true. There are some limitations, but for the most part, money flows into the accounts of these traders with such ease and effortlessness that it literally boggles most people's minds."
Jeff
It's a great book.
IMHO, these two quotes more or less sum up its key messages:
"As long as you are susceptible to the lands of errors that are the result of rationalizing, justifying, hesitating, hoping, and jumping the gun, you will not be able to trust yourself. If you can't trust yourself to be objective and to always act in your own best interests, achieving consistent results will be next to impossible. Trying to do something that looks so simple may well be the most exasperating thing you will ever attempt to do. The irony is that, when you have the appropriate attitude, when you have acquired a "trader’s mind-set" and can remain confident in the face of constant uncertainty, trading will be as easy and simple as you probably thought it was when you first started out."
And:
"For those who have learned how to be consistent, or have broken through what I call the "threshold of consistency,"the money is not only within their grasp; they can virtually take it at will. I'm sure that some will find this statement shocking or difficult to believe, but it is true. There are some limitations, but for the most part, money flows into the accounts of these traders with such ease and effortlessness that it literally boggles most people's minds."
Jeff
oddstrader wrote:trading in the zone has some good content for traders, link attached ,
http://www.mediafire.com/?znnl0bmxzdx
Cheers for the great advice again guys,
I agree it's psychological, It's like I've gone back to when I first started trading, rookie mistakes but on a large scale.
The most annoying thing is I know what I'm doing wrong but I keep doing it! It starts when I use large stakes or double/triple up on my position, I can easily find myself with a massive stake over 1k at sometimes high odds 5/6 and when it goes against me my exit makes things worse, especially in a weak market!
So that leaves me with a large loss, anywhere between £100 and £300 and that's when the "anger trading" kicks in! I start using huge stakes and going in play to try and get back to even (stupid mentality I know). I don't know why I do this now when I never used to?
I wish I could say I still make 1k plus a week but I don't, not for months, I wouldn't even want to check what my weekly average has been for the last 3 months because I think it would mentally finish me off
My confidence and profits are at an all time low, My girlfriend is worried we can't pay the mortgage, I'm having to sell my car. Tough times!
Sorry for the miserable post!
I will try NLP (whatever that is) and anything else that's suggested (and I do appreciate the suggestions!) because I have to make this work again and I will. I am a skeptic but I'm open minded and I can see how hypnosis could help.
Oddstrader, thanks for the link, I actually have had that book for over a year and still not read it! I think it's about time I did, cheers.
It all changes here.
I agree it's psychological, It's like I've gone back to when I first started trading, rookie mistakes but on a large scale.
The most annoying thing is I know what I'm doing wrong but I keep doing it! It starts when I use large stakes or double/triple up on my position, I can easily find myself with a massive stake over 1k at sometimes high odds 5/6 and when it goes against me my exit makes things worse, especially in a weak market!
So that leaves me with a large loss, anywhere between £100 and £300 and that's when the "anger trading" kicks in! I start using huge stakes and going in play to try and get back to even (stupid mentality I know). I don't know why I do this now when I never used to?
I wish I could say I still make 1k plus a week but I don't, not for months, I wouldn't even want to check what my weekly average has been for the last 3 months because I think it would mentally finish me off
My confidence and profits are at an all time low, My girlfriend is worried we can't pay the mortgage, I'm having to sell my car. Tough times!
Sorry for the miserable post!
I will try NLP (whatever that is) and anything else that's suggested (and I do appreciate the suggestions!) because I have to make this work again and I will. I am a skeptic but I'm open minded and I can see how hypnosis could help.
Oddstrader, thanks for the link, I actually have had that book for over a year and still not read it! I think it's about time I did, cheers.
It all changes here.
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oddstrader
- Posts: 344
- Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2010 4:55 pm
- Location: Surrey
if its any consolation the last 3 months have been pretty poor for most pro traders, sometimes you just cant cook unless you have all the ingredients and this winter the main ingredient missing has been genuine liquidity, very skitty markets and very reactive to larger stakes so maybe just take a pull for a few weeks and get your confidence back , adopt the any green will do mentality and grow back gently to larger once the cheltenhams and ascots arrive.
Have you thought of trading with smaller stakes whilst you build your confidence back up, and gradually increase your stake as your bank increases?rhysmr2 wrote: I agree it's psychological, It's like I've gone back to when I first started trading, rookie mistakes but on a large scale.
That way, you might feel like you're playing with money you've won, rather than with your existing resources. Also, if you see certain techniques work time after time, and give you a consistent profit, then you might feel more confident about using them with larger stakes.
I wouldn't beat yourself up about it. I've been there myself - I'd be surprised if there were many traders that haven't.rhysmr2 wrote:The most annoying thing is I know what I'm doing wrong but I keep doing it!
IMHO, one of the hardest things in trading is to simply respond to the patterns the market throws up, using tried and tested techniques, rather then forming opinions about the market (which, in my experience, generally reflect what you want to believe!). Or to put it more concisely, 'want what the market wants'!
I think there are two approaches you can use. You can address the emotions that contribute to your errors, such as stress, by using meditation, Kalms tablets, etc. And you can also work out where you're going wrong technically, and decide firmly that, come what may, you won't act in certain ways in particular situations.
You do it for the same reason that a dieter cheats because they've already broken their diet that day, ie you're frustrated and want some pleasure to numb the pain.rhysmr2 wrote:So that leaves me with a large loss, anywhere between £100 and £300 and that's when the "anger trading" kicks in! I start using huge stakes and going in play to try and get back to even (stupid mentality I know). I don't know why I do this now when I never used to?
I'm sure there are some lines you'd never cross, whatever happened. I'm guessing you wouldn't murder someone, for example!
So IMHO, what you need to do is to turn the 'should' into a 'must' - ie I MUST NOT go in play, try to get even with the market, etc'.My guess is that you still have the skills you used to have, and the market hasn't fundamentally changed.rhysmr2 wrote:I wish I could say I still make 1k plus a week but I don't, not for months,
But ironically, because you're putting pressure on yourself to get to that 1K a week, you may have lost your natural rhythm (like a talented striker who hasn't scored in 20 games, thinks there's something wrong with him, and starts miscuing). That's why using smaller stakes may help until you get your groove back.
BTW, one of the things NLP talks about is 'modeling', where you look at what a successful person does and simply copy it (rather than spend years learning what they know). So why not model your trading on the way you used to trade?
I hope this helps.
Jeff
Rhys
You know how to trade successfully, don't forget that
However, you may have gone stale, or possibly just momentarily lost your edge. Perhaps your desperation to pull in big figures is being driven by increased responsibilities in your private life?
It might be a case of going back to basics. Try to simply trade successfully, and not try to emulate people like Peter Webb. Either use smaller stakes for a while to boost your confidence, or maybe even freshen up your trading by trying something else like football for a while
You know how to trade successfully, don't forget that
However, you may have gone stale, or possibly just momentarily lost your edge. Perhaps your desperation to pull in big figures is being driven by increased responsibilities in your private life?
It might be a case of going back to basics. Try to simply trade successfully, and not try to emulate people like Peter Webb. Either use smaller stakes for a while to boost your confidence, or maybe even freshen up your trading by trying something else like football for a while