Hi,
I trade part time and never understand why people would choose to Bookmake or Dutch a market like soccer. My belief is you might as well just back and lay one team and green up dependant on your view of the market.
Does anyone have other ways of thinking in regards to this.
The only time I Dutch is on a tournment where I want to back three or four teams / players / horses... Which I can then lay off as the event progresses...
Can people advise on thoughts and strategies provide ideas on this topic.
Cheers
Why Bookmake / Dutch
Dutching / Bookmaking is without doubt one of the top ways to take advantage of certain markets.
An efficient market is 100%. If you can lay 70% of the market and achieve a better price on the other 30% than when you placed the initial bet between then and the end of the race you will win.
It isn't that difficult to do. Just takes understanding of the market and some hard work.
An efficient market is 100%. If you can lay 70% of the market and achieve a better price on the other 30% than when you placed the initial bet between then and the end of the race you will win.
It isn't that difficult to do. Just takes understanding of the market and some hard work.
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CaerMyrddin
- Posts: 1271
- Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 10:47 am
Depending on how you can get your orders filled, it can be better to bookmake ou dutch, imho.
Frank,
A) Sometimes a 1 tick scalp will only bring you a 0.5% profit, whereas laying all 3 selections on a market that's currently trading at 100.7% or 100.8% is more profitable
B) Sometimes the money sat waiting in queues is so large, it becomes difficult and time consuming to get a back and lay trade taken on that selection. It's often easier to lay all 3 selections to achieve a nice green
C) Football markets can be fairly static at times. Bookmaking all 3 selections means you can make money without there being any price movements at all
D) As your bank rises it can be difficult to trade on a selection without distorting the WOM and potentially having an impact on the market. This can lead to you being exposed as the market changes, however laying all 3 selections and spreading that money across the board doesn't have the same effect, so it's easier to make a nice green
A) Sometimes a 1 tick scalp will only bring you a 0.5% profit, whereas laying all 3 selections on a market that's currently trading at 100.7% or 100.8% is more profitable
B) Sometimes the money sat waiting in queues is so large, it becomes difficult and time consuming to get a back and lay trade taken on that selection. It's often easier to lay all 3 selections to achieve a nice green
C) Football markets can be fairly static at times. Bookmaking all 3 selections means you can make money without there being any price movements at all
D) As your bank rises it can be difficult to trade on a selection without distorting the WOM and potentially having an impact on the market. This can lead to you being exposed as the market changes, however laying all 3 selections and spreading that money across the board doesn't have the same effect, so it's easier to make a nice green
Frank,
There are times when the way you explain is definitely better. Dutching / bookmaking can't work all the time. Let me try to explain better.
Say you have a market of 16 runners in a completive race. You think it could be anybody's race. The ground has changed because it's been raining all week. There is really bad draw bias that means half of the field have little chance. (Chester??)
So you turn on the DUTCHING tab.
Horses drawn 8-16 have a huge disadvantage. You want to oppose all of those. At the time of doing this 1 minute pre race time The book is running at 99.8%. This is efficient and means the odds reflect the chance of winning. To make a profit you need the BACK book UNDER 100%.
So basically you need all of the horses you want to oppose to trade bigger than the price now. Are you confident they will all trade bigger? If so move the tick over to manual odds and add a couple of ticks to all of the runners you want to oppose. If you can make the book up to 75 - 80% you have a little room for error.
Fire the bets in and then KEEP ALL.
To lose one of your bets will be left unmatched, You will lose pretty much the stake you entered less the stake you have on the horse unmatched. - CLUE - The bigger the price the more your risk.
The trick is to manage your bets during the race. If you are worried about an individual horse, take the price on offer and then use the manual bets tab to reduce your liability. Remember you have 20-25% profit to play with. The trick is not to be greedy. The bigger the % the bigger the risk.
This cannot be done trading in the sense you describe.
This is just 1 example. There are lots more ways.
The most important thing to know about dutching/ bookmaking is beware of the non runner. If you recycle money and a runner is taken out the RF factor can cause a real nightmare.
Hope this helps. Does it make any sense?
There are times when the way you explain is definitely better. Dutching / bookmaking can't work all the time. Let me try to explain better.
Say you have a market of 16 runners in a completive race. You think it could be anybody's race. The ground has changed because it's been raining all week. There is really bad draw bias that means half of the field have little chance. (Chester??)
So you turn on the DUTCHING tab.
Horses drawn 8-16 have a huge disadvantage. You want to oppose all of those. At the time of doing this 1 minute pre race time The book is running at 99.8%. This is efficient and means the odds reflect the chance of winning. To make a profit you need the BACK book UNDER 100%.
So basically you need all of the horses you want to oppose to trade bigger than the price now. Are you confident they will all trade bigger? If so move the tick over to manual odds and add a couple of ticks to all of the runners you want to oppose. If you can make the book up to 75 - 80% you have a little room for error.
Fire the bets in and then KEEP ALL.
To lose one of your bets will be left unmatched, You will lose pretty much the stake you entered less the stake you have on the horse unmatched. - CLUE - The bigger the price the more your risk.
The trick is to manage your bets during the race. If you are worried about an individual horse, take the price on offer and then use the manual bets tab to reduce your liability. Remember you have 20-25% profit to play with. The trick is not to be greedy. The bigger the % the bigger the risk.
This cannot be done trading in the sense you describe.
This is just 1 example. There are lots more ways.
The most important thing to know about dutching/ bookmaking is beware of the non runner. If you recycle money and a runner is taken out the RF factor can cause a real nightmare.
Hope this helps. Does it make any sense?
Cheers guys this helps alot. One more question then. How do we manage the risk. Say for ease sack we create a book laying the whole field and one of the bets does not get filled. We go in play and this moves against us... How can we calculate our pl and get out without losing all our stake. I know betangel has a greening function is that what we would use?
Hi,
I know I asked last week about stops in terms of bookmaking / dutching. Was just wondering if anyone could help.
Example I attempt to Dutch a horse race, I get filled on the majority of horses. But not all. We go in play and the price of this horse goes against us. How can we get out and calculate the right stake quickly enough?
Is it a case of using the greening feature in betangel or is there another method?
I know I asked last week about stops in terms of bookmaking / dutching. Was just wondering if anyone could help.
Example I attempt to Dutch a horse race, I get filled on the majority of horses. But not all. We go in play and the price of this horse goes against us. How can we get out and calculate the right stake quickly enough?
Is it a case of using the greening feature in betangel or is there another method?