Betfair announce end of trading then delete tweet
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BetScalper
- Posts: 1139
- Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2017 10:47 pm
I have been a big reader of this forum for quite some time, but after the outage and the latest video of Peter I wanted to share my view and story on this as well and decided to actually make a contribution to this forum. Sorry for a long first post, but I want to clarify their argumentation.
I fully agree with Peter in regard to the voiding of all markets. In a conversation I had with Betfair CS I stated the following to them:
'I do understand why you would not void all markets affected by this technical issue, as no commission would be obtained. However, by not voiding bets you are leaving customers with severe losses (in my case 1200euro) that were not intended for whilst trading (note: i am not saying betting). A situation that voids all bets maybe gives issues regarding people stating they lost winners, but it ensures you no one is experiencing losses that where not intended for whilst trading and that should be your main priority in cases like this. All you have with this approach is people leaving the company due to losses that were not intended for. And the missed commission should be the incentive to improve the service provided and ensure things like this do not happen in the future.'
I even called them during the outage with the request to get me out of the trade, even when the trade went in my favor. They just simply told me 'we hope she wins, there is nothing we can do, good luck with your bet'. As you mention, they are using the argument that they are not responsible, and firstly stated that it was an event out of their control:
'I hope you can understand that such technical issues are beyond our control, and this is also mentioned in our terms and conditions which I have copied for you below;
Matters beyond our reasonable control
Without prejudice to our obligations contained within the various laws and regulations of the jurisdictions where we are licensed, we are not liable for any loss or damage that you may suffer because of any: act of God; power cut; trade or labour dispute; act, failure or omission of any government or authority; obstruction or failure of telecommunication services; or any other delay or failure caused by a third party or otherwise outside of our control. In such an event, we reserve the right to cancel or suspend our services without incurring any liability.'.
After dicussing this with them that several failures in a week is not a situation outside their control and that none of the above extreme situations occured this saturday, they came up with the following argument:
'In this case, I'm afraid the following terms and conditions apply, and that we will need to abide by these terms:
“We are not liable for the failure of any equipment or software however so caused, wherever located or administered, or whether under our direct control or not, that may prevent the operation of the Services, impede the placing of offers for bets or the matching of bets, or prevent you from being able to contact us.
Please be aware that if you place a bet with the intention of subsequently placing a separate bet to reduce the liability incurred by the initial bet (including by using Betfair's 'Cash Out' functionality), there can never be a guarantee that the Services will be available at the point you wish to place the subsequent bet (this is the case regardless of whether or not the unavailability of the Services is due to a matter beyond our reasonable control.'
So the big question that arises here is: has the outage been caused by a situation beyond their reasonable control? I beg to argument that based on the outages earlier in the week. What are your opinions?
I am currently in a discussion with the Escalation Management Team in regard to moving to IBAS with my complaints, as the terms and conditions also state the following:
' 6. Cancellation, Termination, Suspension and Breach
We may restrict your access to Betfair, suspend or terminate your account, withdraw your offers for bets, void any bets outstanding to your account, cancel any unmatched bets or cancel and void any outstanding or matched bets in our absolute discretion without cause at any time including if:
- there is a technological failure;'
Any opinions regarding this? I will keep you updated.
I fully agree with Peter in regard to the voiding of all markets. In a conversation I had with Betfair CS I stated the following to them:
'I do understand why you would not void all markets affected by this technical issue, as no commission would be obtained. However, by not voiding bets you are leaving customers with severe losses (in my case 1200euro) that were not intended for whilst trading (note: i am not saying betting). A situation that voids all bets maybe gives issues regarding people stating they lost winners, but it ensures you no one is experiencing losses that where not intended for whilst trading and that should be your main priority in cases like this. All you have with this approach is people leaving the company due to losses that were not intended for. And the missed commission should be the incentive to improve the service provided and ensure things like this do not happen in the future.'
I even called them during the outage with the request to get me out of the trade, even when the trade went in my favor. They just simply told me 'we hope she wins, there is nothing we can do, good luck with your bet'. As you mention, they are using the argument that they are not responsible, and firstly stated that it was an event out of their control:
'I hope you can understand that such technical issues are beyond our control, and this is also mentioned in our terms and conditions which I have copied for you below;
Matters beyond our reasonable control
Without prejudice to our obligations contained within the various laws and regulations of the jurisdictions where we are licensed, we are not liable for any loss or damage that you may suffer because of any: act of God; power cut; trade or labour dispute; act, failure or omission of any government or authority; obstruction or failure of telecommunication services; or any other delay or failure caused by a third party or otherwise outside of our control. In such an event, we reserve the right to cancel or suspend our services without incurring any liability.'.
After dicussing this with them that several failures in a week is not a situation outside their control and that none of the above extreme situations occured this saturday, they came up with the following argument:
'In this case, I'm afraid the following terms and conditions apply, and that we will need to abide by these terms:
“We are not liable for the failure of any equipment or software however so caused, wherever located or administered, or whether under our direct control or not, that may prevent the operation of the Services, impede the placing of offers for bets or the matching of bets, or prevent you from being able to contact us.
Please be aware that if you place a bet with the intention of subsequently placing a separate bet to reduce the liability incurred by the initial bet (including by using Betfair's 'Cash Out' functionality), there can never be a guarantee that the Services will be available at the point you wish to place the subsequent bet (this is the case regardless of whether or not the unavailability of the Services is due to a matter beyond our reasonable control.'
So the big question that arises here is: has the outage been caused by a situation beyond their reasonable control? I beg to argument that based on the outages earlier in the week. What are your opinions?
I am currently in a discussion with the Escalation Management Team in regard to moving to IBAS with my complaints, as the terms and conditions also state the following:
' 6. Cancellation, Termination, Suspension and Breach
We may restrict your access to Betfair, suspend or terminate your account, withdraw your offers for bets, void any bets outstanding to your account, cancel any unmatched bets or cancel and void any outstanding or matched bets in our absolute discretion without cause at any time including if:
- there is a technological failure;'
Any opinions regarding this? I will keep you updated.
I think we can safely say a policy of voiding bets in markets affected by an outage won't go down well and have many traders and bettors up in arms, but what about a simple cancel/leave to be matched/green-up option in the account settings?
I know it would take some complex maths to undertake a universal green-up but in it's simplest form they could pick a 100% book and chuck in green-up bets until they are all matched?
I know it would take some complex maths to undertake a universal green-up but in it's simplest form they could pick a 100% book and chuck in green-up bets until they are all matched?
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northbound
- Posts: 737
- Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:22 pm
I got £10. You’re obviously a much bigger player than me. 
I once received a £50 goodwill payment when I was only complaining about an odd fiver in a US market, so they seem pretty much arbitrary!northbound wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2019 6:30 pmI got £10. You’re obviously a much bigger player than me.
i didn't have anything in play on saturday but did receive the email that you mentioned earlier.Derek27 wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2019 7:06 pmI once received a £50 goodwill payment when I was only complaining about an odd fiver in a US market, so they seem pretty much arbitrary!northbound wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2019 6:30 pmI got £10. You’re obviously a much bigger player than me.
out of interest, what was the trim that betfair included in the refund (i.e. did it mention the markets involved, or was it just a bland £xx -Refunded type thing)?? interested to know how they worded that from a legal perspective...
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northbound
- Posts: 737
- Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:22 pm
Goodwill - Exchange Outage - EXC11
ok, nice and bland then
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northbound
- Posts: 737
- Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:22 pm