UK General Election 2024 (or 25)

[firlandsfarm]

But he did know. The failed voluntary "lockdown" before they brought in the law a week later lost a lot of time with an exponential disease. And they were havering for months before that. Sure hindisght is wonderful, but the explosion of cases in Italy should have trig gered alarm bells. And the voices were there sayiing so. But they were ignored until the data was punching them in the face.
We're back to the "same old". You defend the Tories to the hilt. I think this lot are useless bunch of ****'s.

He may have known lockdown was a theory (and that's all it was), but you can't close your ears to the alternative voices that were being put before him. My comment was that even now people can't agree which strategy was best so what chance getting it right when having to make immediate decisions.

[greenmark]

But he did know. The failed voluntary "lockdown" before they brought in the law a week later lost a lot of time with an exponential disease. And they were havering for months before that. Sure hindisght is wonderful, but the explosion of cases in Italy should have trig gered alarm bells. And the voices were there sayiing so. But they were ignored until the data was punching them in the face.
We're back to the "same old". You defend the Tories to the hilt. I think this lot are useless bunch of ****'s.

He may have known lockdown was a theory (and that's all it was), but you can't close your ears to the alternative voices that were being put before him. My comment was that even now people can't agree which strategy was best so what chance getting it right when having to make immediate decisions.

At the very least they misjudged the response of the nation to a voluntary lockdown. And several witnesses have now backed up evidence from the time that we should have locked down earlier.
IMO and this is not hindsight I was mightily relieved when they made lockdown mandatory. That preceding weekend was complete bedlam. My usual walk seeing maybe 30 people on a weekend ot 60 people on a bank holiday was just rammed. I mean hundreds.
So that's not the govts fault. It's the fault of the public or the lack of communication of what was needed.

What ticked me off today was BJ's contention that his "let it rip" and "old people should accept their fate" comments in meetings was him challenging the scientists and civil servants as the layman in the room representing the british public's views and was challenging those experts to justify the other strategies they were suggesting.
As we both know I'm prejudiced and sceptical about anything that spllls from BJ's mouth, but I would be interested what you thought of the veracity of his claims there.

[Archery1969]

The Covid enquiry is a load of bollocks.

Only 1 country got things completely correct being Taiwan with only 7 deaths in 2020 and not much more in 2021 or 2022.

The enquiry should forget what there doing and go to that country and take notes on what they did correctly. Be allot cheaper and more scientifically worthy.

Yes, people died as they do every day, every week, every month and every year.

Stop living in the past and move forward.

The country should just get over it as there are potentially far worse things coming for the UK.

[Derek27]

The Covid enquiry is a load of bollocks.

Only 1 country got things completely correct being Taiwan with only 7 deaths in 2020 and not much more in 2021 or 2022.

The enquiry should forget what there doing and go to that country and take notes on what they did correctly. Be allot cheaper and more scientifically worthy.

Yes, people died as they do every day, every week, every month and every year.

Stop living in the past and move forward.

The country should just get over it as there are potentially far worse things coming for the UK.

You can get things wrong because you're not perfect, incompetent or didn't give a shit. It's the reasons why things went wrong needs to be investigated and lessons must be learnt.

The main lesson to be learnt is, don't choose a leader who's a narcissistic incompetent pathological lying buffoon that doesn't understand basic maths because he's a vote winner.

[firlandsfarm]

At the very least they misjudged the response of the nation to a voluntary lockdown. And several witnesses have now backed up evidence from the time that we should have locked down earlier.
IMO and this is not hindsight I was mightily relieved when they made lockdown mandatory. That preceding weekend was complete bedlam. My usual walk seeing maybe 30 people on a weekend ot 60 people on a bank holiday was just rammed. I mean hundreds.
So that's not the govts fault. It's the fault of the public or the lack of communication of what was needed.

What ticked me off today was BJ's contention that his "let it rip" and "old people should accept their fate" comments in meetings was him challenging the scientists and civil servants as the layman in the room representing the british public's views and was challenging those experts to justify the other strategies they were suggesting.
As we both know I'm prejudiced and sceptical about anything that spllls from BJ's mouth, but I would be interested what you thought of the veracity of his claims there.

Well I will start my answer in a similar vein that I usually take ... my answer will be pure speculation because I wasn't there. A 'test' I apply to what others say in this forum. So I have to assess the position with a lot of 'reasonableness'. On that front I would say what BJ (and others) have said is very reasonable for the situation they found themselves in. I assume you are familiar with 'brainstorming' when everything is thrown on the table, not immediately discussed, not assessed for viability ... just put forward for later evaluation. It's purpose is to make sure every possible issue is raised and considered.

So what subjects would you expect to arise from a brainstorming session for a pandemic. How about ...

Do nothing
Help find a vaccination
Overwhelmed NHS services
Prioritise treatment classes
Restrict movement
Reduce rate of contagion
Close 'meeting' activities
Overwhelmed funeral services
People to stay at home
Close non-vital work places
Give support to vital workers
Effect any step will have on public morale
Effect any step will have on economy
Long-term effect of any of the points
Etc., etc, etc.

The easiest job in the world is, with hindsight, to pick on one or two of these (and others not listed), ignore any interactions with other points and criticise. Now imagine not just considering the long list of issues for consideration in real time but also being bombarded with contrary advice from various experts at the same time. I would say he would be lying if he didn't change his mind many times. Remember also that of all the people criticising him and others, none of them, not one, would have ever been in that position and had to make any immediate decision of such importance and with such impact. Of all those criticising I bet none of them would have wanted the Government's job at that time.

And even after all that remember while some think lockdown should have been enforced earlier there are some who feel that was the wrong decision because it's effect is usually evaluated in isolation without the knock-on harm it causes in other areas. And of course we will never know what the full impact of any alternate action would have been. It's like the football fan who says "... and we should have had a penalty in which case we would have won the game". The fan assumes a goal would have been scored from the claimed penalty and more so thereafter the one thing that can be guaranteed is that the rest of the play in the game would not be the same as was ... maybe the opponents would have scored 3 times!

My view of this is it was all new ground with no past experience to base decisions on nor alternatives in fact to compare them with. Our facilities were not designed to handle a pandemic and never will be because taxpayers won't agree to pay to cover handling such an event that may never happen again in their lifetimes.

[firlandsfarm]

The Covid enquiry is a load of bollocks.

Only 1 country got things completely correct being Taiwan with only 7 deaths in 2020 and not much more in 2021 or 2022.

The enquiry should forget what there doing and go to that country and take notes on what they did correctly. Be allot cheaper and more scientifically worthy.

Yes, people died as they do every day, every week, every month and every year.

Stop living in the past and move forward.

The country should just get over it as there are potentially far worse things coming for the UK.

But the thing in Taiwan's favour is that it is isolated from China!

[sionascaig]

And of course we will never know what the full impact of any alternate action would have been.

Just to pick one point:

There was the case of Wales introducing a circuit breaker and Eng refusing to do so... Stats were presented during enquiry showing benefits to Wales vs Eng in months immediately afterwards...

Don't really want to have an argument over it but surely you can see Johnson was not fit for office from the multitudes of evidence presented. Even his own ministers refused to serve with him any more for lying.... This isn't a left v's right point, he just wasn't fit enough for the positions he held in public office & the rest is history.

[Derek27]

Tories planning a revolt against Sunak's bill. Could be Sunak's last roll of the dice in his Rwandan Martingale, which has now reached losses of £240M.

[sionascaig]

2.64 for cons to lose more than 201 seats in next election

Was surprised worst outcome is fav!

Screenshot 2023-12-08 125134.png

[Derek27]

2.64 for cons to lose more than 201 seats in next election

Was surprised worst outcome is fav!

Screenshot 2023-12-08 125134.png

So was I. I think it's a new market, only noticed it a few days ago. At first glance, I would have thought there's value in the mid-range but I'm sure the people who formed that market will have done their analysis. Hope it's a complete and utter humiliation.

[The Silk Run]

I think the Indian Boy is really up shit-creek now, without a paddle

[Derek27]

Top lawyers from the Conservative Party have analysed the bill and concluded it's not watertight, not fit for purpose and challengeable in court.

[Derek27]

If you get a ticket for parking your car on a double yellow line, just tell the traffic warden you made an error and you should get away with it, like Baroness Mone.

[Derek27]

David Davis claims to be the last man standing for human rights, so he's voting to scrap human rights in next week's bill.

[Derek27]

Sunak giving evidence today at the Covid inquiry, will have to explain the deaths he caused in order to let me have a cheap McDonalds. Then tomorrow's his vote of no confidence on his Rwanda fiasco.

How do people who don't drink get through a difficult week?

Great shame Starmer doesn't still work part time as a barrister, he could quiz Sunak himself.