Israel/Palestine conflict

[Archery1969]

Michael Clarke says both our aircraft carriers are sitting in Portsmouth unable to be deployed. They don't have enough crewed support ships.

And we're supposed to be ready for war against Russia!

A war with Russia would not be conventional, therefore the 2 submarines deployed somewhere around the globe would engage by firing nukes which would hit designated targets within 15 minutes. The subs would then drop to maximum safe depths and get well away to engage later on if they had remaining warheads. Assuming we believe Russia has hypersonic Nukes that work then most of us would be dead within 9 minutes or so. I say most, apart from Royal Family, certain politicians, key workers and about 8,000 service personnel in the UK. Anyone that survives the first 72 hours will probably wish they hadn’t.

[greenmark]

Michael Clarke says both our aircraft carriers are sitting in Portsmouth unable to be deployed. They don't have enough crewed support ships.

And we're supposed to be ready for war against Russia!

A war with Russia would not be conventional, therefore the 2 submarines deployed somewhere around the globe would engage by firing nukes which would hit designated targets within 15 minutes. The subs would then drop to maximum safe depths and get well away to engage later on if they had remaining warheads. Assuming we believe Russia has hypersonic Nukes that work then most of us would be dead within 9 minutes or so. I say most, apart from Royal Family, certain politicians, key workers and about 8,000 service personnel in the UK. Anyone that survives the first 72 hours will probably wish they hadn’t.

What are your references? You seem to know a lot about nuclear warfare strategy?

[Archery1969]

Michael Clarke says both our aircraft carriers are sitting in Portsmouth unable to be deployed. They don't have enough crewed support ships.

And we're supposed to be ready for war against Russia!

A war with Russia would not be conventional, therefore the 2 submarines deployed somewhere around the globe would engage by firing nukes which would hit designated targets within 15 minutes. The subs would then drop to maximum safe depths and get well away to engage later on if they had remaining warheads. Assuming we believe Russia has hypersonic Nukes that work then most of us would be dead within 9 minutes or so. I say most, apart from Royal Family, certain politicians, key workers and about 8,000 service personnel in the UK. Anyone that survives the first 72 hours will probably wish they hadn’t.

What are your references? You seem to know a lot about nuclear warfare strategy?

I did nuclear warfare training in the 1990s and refresher course in 2009. The basics are still relevant to this day. Your average person will not stand a chance. People left after the first wave will be scrambling for shelter, food, water and warmth. This will lead to mass panic where all rules will naturally go out the window. There won’t be many to keep any type of order.

However it’s common knowledge in military circles how long nuclear missiles take to hit their targets depending on them being land based or sea based to start with. Obviously, hypersonic ones are much faster. Until 2022, most experts said hypersonic anything couldn’t be stopped but the US and Ukraine proved that to be untrue in 2023 by knocking 3 down .

There is a command centre in the UK and elsewhere which detects launches worldwide and predicts their destinations. Any that are predicted for targets in the Uk are monitored and information shared with land / sea based interceptors automatically.

The one in the UK is jointly operated by US/UK, cost is unknown.

Officially, the UK does not have a modern nuclear proof shelter in operation. If it does then it’s been kept very secret and would not be for Joe publics use anyway. A document online from 2007 suggested the Royal Family, politicians would be flown to a location outside of the UK.

I know where there are 3 sites in the UK used by the MOD but we were never told there actual locations. I suspect they were from the 1980s and updated.

[Derek27]

Just watching the ICJ judges slowly file into the courtroom to take their place on the panel, I can't help wondering how many will live long enough to reach their seat.

[alexmr2]

Hopefully the UK keeps these wars going on for as long as possible as we cheer on the sure bet horse known as war stocks

Screenshot_20240126-180722_Chrome.jpg

[greenmark]

Hopefully the UK keeps these wars going on for as long as possible as we cheer on the sure bet horse known as war stocks

Screenshot_20240126-180722_Chrome.jpg

I think that's a salient point. I don't know to what extent these companies influence policy or just profit from it. But their profiting does appear to be real.

[Archery1969]

War is good for the economy.

[greenmark]

War is good for the economy.

No it isn't in the long run.
There are far better uses of human intellect, innovation and energy than making war or weapons. Apologies, because you've said you were in the forces, but I don't crtiicise that at all. But imagine if your abiity was purely focussed on creating a better world. You ex-forces guys would be awesome.

[firlandsfarm]

War is good for the economy.

No it isn't in the long run.
There are far better uses of human intellect, innovation and energy than making war or weapons. Apologies, because you've said you were in the forces, but I don't crtiicise that at all. But imagine if your abiity was purely focussed on creating a better world. You ex-forces guys would be awesome.

Yes but war gives greater motivation and urgency than boring better worlding!

[johnsheppard]

War is good for the economy.

No it isn't in the long run.
There are far better uses of human intellect, innovation and energy than making war or weapons. Apologies, because you've said you were in the forces, but I don't crtiicise that at all. But imagine if your abiity was purely focussed on creating a better world. You ex-forces guys would be awesome.

Isn't the idea that GDP is the important economy to look at from the perspective of getting a gov voted back in? If GDP includes making bombs...boo ya...

One could argue the whole newspaper, sales, web development 'economy' is just as terrible as making things that kill other people... but you know...some people love it...

i.e. Who are you to dictate what is a better way to spend my money? (I am of course being facetious here and do not mean to cause offence)

[greenmark]

War is good for the economy.

No it isn't in the long run.
There are far better uses of human intellect, innovation and energy than making war or weapons. Apologies, because you've said you were in the forces, but I don't crtiicise that at all. But imagine if your abiity was purely focussed on creating a better world. You ex-forces guys would be awesome.

Isn't the idea that GDP is the important economy to look at from the perspective of getting a gov voted back in? If GDP includes making bombs...boo ya...

One could argue the whole newspaper, sales, web development 'economy' is just as terrible as making things that kill other people... but you know...some people love it...

i.e. Who are you to dictate what is a better way to spend my money? (I am of course being facetious here and do not mean to cause offence)

There is a theory that Israel knew Hamas was planning a big attack. But they chose to let it happen because it would allow them to do what they've wanted for a long time - neutralise the threat from Gaza and take complete control. That could be a stronger motivation than GDP.

The GDP argument coud apply to any weapon-making country. But I still doubt the arms industry has that level if influence. They are just the beneficiaries of any conflict. So without aggressive politicians/dictators/NRA the arms industry would be pointless and all those involved in manufacturing arms or deploying them could be doing better things.

Hard to find definitive info for UK, but seems like about 10% of UK exports are weapon related, although not all of that is lethal, and worse, the totality of what we export for war-making/defence is not reported.
I did live up the road from a Royal Ordenance/BAE factory and it provided many jobs, so I take your (and firlandsfarm's) point that providing for war/defence makes jobs.

My point is those people, from top to bottom would be better employed doing something else.
And more broadly, us killing each other is beyond stupid, but it seems I'm an outlier with that opinion.

[johnsheppard]

My point is those people, from top to bottom would be better employed doing something else.
And more broadly, us killing each other is beyond stupid, but it seems I'm an outlier with that opinion.

oh I agree with you, but that is just me.... If we were a connected herd animal like bees or some such thing, we'd put all our efforts into technology that enhanced our lives.... The issue here with humans is that we aren't and then, what is it that constitutes enhancing lives?

For some, it is fighting with each other. (sure is fun!)
For some, it is watching the news and being appalled about the state of the world
For some, it is one uping the person next to them in status...
For some, it is peace and quiet to figure out what this thing called life means.
etc etc

Take advertising as an example...that doesn't enhance anyone's life? It's a tool to make money for the advertiser... That advertising money could, for example, be spent on R&D for a world wide supply of free massage chairs I know what I'd rather, but because we're all different some would rather have advertising because they prefer status to comfort.

The real question becomes, who do you allow to make decisions? In capitalism the answer is: Whoever has the most money....and you gotta go to war to make more of it ya know... hence we are stuck with fighting each other...and advertising...

[Kai]

My point is those people, from top to bottom would be better employed doing something else.
And more broadly, us killing each other is beyond stupid, but it seems I'm an outlier with that opinion.

oh I agree with you, but that is just me.... If we were a connected herd animal like bees or some such thing, we'd put all our efforts into technology that enhanced our lives.... The issue here with humans is that we aren't and then, what is it that constitutes enhancing lives?

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/nJB7etK6wS8

[conduirez]

My point is those people, from top to bottom would be better employed doing something else.
And more broadly, us killing each other is beyond stupid, but it seems I'm an outlier with that opinion.

oh I agree with you, but that is just me.... If we were a connected herd animal like bees or some such thing, we'd put all our efforts into technology that enhanced our lives.... The issue here with humans is that we aren't and then, what is it that constitutes enhancing lives?

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/nJB7etK6wS8

[Derek27]

Michael Clarke says the IDF tactics, disguising themselves as Hamas terrorists to get into a hospital to take out real Hamas terrorists is questionable, but it sounds like a bloody good idea to me.