Betdaq Feedback/General Chat Thread

[Naffman]

More politics markets would be good, not sure if the appetite would be there for others though but maybe worth a go

[Betdaq]

Thanks for posting. A excellent idea, and you'll get some useful feedback from the traders here.

My first thought is you need to invest in Bet Angel to bring the Bet Angel for Betdaq version of the software up to date. It's been neglected for years due to underinvestment and functionality has been left far behind the Betfair version.

eg support for TPD would be huge for me.

I think Peter is better placed to answer this. Peter has invested in Betdaq work for Bet Angel in the past but there was never a big uptake when the work was done.

Peter was able to trade Cheltenham and Aintree using Betdaq and Betfair. I think you're correct that there is work that could be done but Peter would need to see the community beginning to engage more with Betdaq on Bet Angel before that could be considered. I am willing to do everything I can to encoruage this from a Betdaq point of view. We hear everyone say they want an alternative to Betfair and we are trying to provide that. I understand we cannot get a customers full wallet share instantly but if people start using us for some of their betting then momentum will grow.

We have an ecosystem with lots of market makers along with a reasonable amount of retail custom and on course bookmakers. The two big segments that we are missing are matched bettors and trading tool users. I have engaged with the matched betting community since December and we are starting to see a flow of their volume moving to Betdaq. This was my first task as I had managed this segment in my previous role. My next challenge is trading tool users and I will admit that I do not have a lot of experience with trading tool users. I am lucky enough that I do have a lot of expertise within Betdaq to help me with this.

Edit: I still think it is worth highlighting improvements as I can keep track of them.

Let’s not beat around the bush – we need Betdaq to pony up if we’re dreaming of a spiffy Bet Angel platform tailored for Betdaq users. Ideas are flying around here, which is brilliant, but it’s Betdaq’s play now.

Peter Webb has laid it out plain and simple numerous times: without some external investment, Bet Angel's Betdaq software isn't getting an upgrade. If they don’t front the cash for Bet Angel, we’re stuck in a ‘chicken and egg’ scenario. People here won’t jump ship without a solid toolset. Betdaq could potentially also see a decent return from the software subscribers alone.

So, Betdaq, how about fueling the innovation engine?

We are open to a proposal. I believe Peter wants adoption from customers on the current system first.

[Betdaq]

Betdaq's mission seems to have always been

To Survive Not Thrive

We are only privately owned again with two years. We are the only exchange trying to take on Betfair. Id hope you might give us a chance to see what we can do.

[Betdaq]

More politics markets would be good, not sure if the appetite would be there for others though but maybe worth a go

Adding these markets is easy. Getting liquidity in them will depend on customers like you.

[jimibt]

Betdaq's mission seems to have always been

To Survive Not Thrive

We are only privately owned again with two years. We are the only exchange trying to take on Betfair. Id hope you might give us a chance to see what we can do.

i think the bottom line for many on here is to have an understanding of the commission makeup in very simplistic terms. if there's a huge variance (dependent on activity type), then I think the battle is going to be very difficult. The issue with BF all along has been the PC structure but it's always been understood how this works and when you will fall into it. for BD to have any chance here, you will have to revolutionise, rather than evolutionise. The present time is probably one of the few opportunities that exists where that structure can be made clear and informed choices can be made.

I can't obviously mandate the commission structure, but competing head on with BF's structure would win you many new customers. One thing that makes BF problematic is that it sets the PC barrier at a FIXED LIFETIME profitability figure (£250k). I would suggest that a starting point on addressing this would be to have an annual profitability figure (say once the profitability exceeds 50k in the given year) and at the same time, only scoop out 30-40% PC on those. Obviously, sliding scales exist within that also. For the remaining customer base, 3-5% per market wouldn't chase too many away.

just my naive viewpoint...

[conduirez]

Betdaq's mission seems to have always been

To Survive Not Thrive

We are only privately owned again with two years. We are the only exchange trying to take on Betfair. Id hope you might give us a chance to see what we can do.

i think the bottom line for many on here is to have an understanding of the commission makeup in very simplistic terms. if there's a huge variance (dependent on activity type), then I think the battle is going to be very difficult. The issue with BF all along has been the PC structure but it's always been understood how this works and when you will fall into it. for BD to have any chance here, you will have to revolutionise, rather than evolutionise. The present time is probably one of the few opportunities that exists where that structure can be made clear and informed choices can be made.

I can't obviously mandate the commission structure, but competing head on with BF's structure would win you many new customers. One thing that makes BF problematic is that it sets the PC barrier at a FIXED LIFETIME profitability figure (£250k). I would suggest that a starting point on addressing this would be to have an annual profitability figure (say once the profitability exceeds 50k in the given year) and at the same time, only scoop out 30-40% PC on those. Obviously, sliding scales exist within that also. For the remaining customer base, 3-5% per market wouldn't chase too many away.

just my naive viewpoint...

+1, That is a good shout jimibt

[gstar1975]

We do not accept customers from Thailand.

Why is this country list being actively updated if it's not accurate?

Can you provide a full country list?

I was wrong. Thailand is accepted. I double checked on the reg page and thought it was not on it. That list is accurate I am told.

Hi Edna, If a UK citizen moved to another country thats not on the list for Betdaq, but still had a UK address and Bank Account and had a Betdaq account before they moved, could they continue to use that account whilst in the country not on the list of countries but use a vpn to access and trade on Betdaq, is that within the terms and if not could it be included?

[lotora]

I think Peter is better placed to answer this. Peter has invested in Betdaq work for Bet Angel in the past but there was never a big uptake when the work was done.

Peter was able to trade Cheltenham and Aintree using Betdaq and Betfair. I think you're correct that there is work that could be done but Peter would need to see the community beginning to engage more with Betdaq on Bet Angel before that could be considered. I am willing to do everything I can to encoruage this from a Betdaq point of view. We hear everyone say they want an alternative to Betfair and we are trying to provide that. I understand we cannot get a customers full wallet share instantly but if people start using us for some of their betting then momentum will grow.

We have an ecosystem with lots of market makers along with a reasonable amount of retail custom and on course bookmakers. The two big segments that we are missing are matched bettors and trading tool users. I have engaged with the matched betting community since December and we are starting to see a flow of their volume moving to Betdaq. This was my first task as I had managed this segment in my previous role. My next challenge is trading tool users and I will admit that I do not have a lot of experience with trading tool users. I am lucky enough that I do have a lot of expertise within Betdaq to help me with this.

Edit: I still think it is worth highlighting improvements as I can keep track of them.

Let’s not beat around the bush – we need Betdaq to pony up if we’re dreaming of a spiffy Bet Angel platform tailored for Betdaq users. Ideas are flying around here, which is brilliant, but it’s Betdaq’s play now.

Peter Webb has laid it out plain and simple numerous times: without some external investment, Bet Angel's Betdaq software isn't getting an upgrade. If they don’t front the cash for Bet Angel, we’re stuck in a ‘chicken and egg’ scenario. People here won’t jump ship without a solid toolset. Betdaq could potentially also see a decent return from the software subscribers alone.

So, Betdaq, how about fueling the innovation engine?

We are open to a proposal. I believe Peter wants adoption from customers on the current system first.

@Euler Hey Peter! Are you paying attention?

[Betdaq]

Why is this country list being actively updated if it's not accurate?

Can you provide a full country list?

I was wrong. Thailand is accepted. I double checked on the reg page and thought it was not on it. That list is accurate I am told.

Hi Edna, If a UK citizen moved to another country thats not on the list for Betdaq, but still had a UK address and Bank Account and had a Betdaq account before they moved, could they continue to use that account whilst in the country not on the list of countries but use a vpn to access and trade on Betdaq, is that within the terms and if not could it be included?

No, VPN is not permitted.

[Kai]

I was wrong. Thailand is accepted. I double checked on the reg page and thought it was not on it. That list is accurate I am told.

Hi Edna, If a UK citizen moved to another country thats not on the list for Betdaq, but still had a UK address and Bank Account and had a Betdaq account before they moved, could they continue to use that account whilst in the country not on the list of countries but use a vpn to access and trade on Betdaq, is that within the terms and if not could it be included?

No, VPN is not permitted.

Technically Betfair doesn't permit it either but they still seem to allow it since it drives a lot of volume their way? Many such users here you could get potentially get feedback from.

Hopefully you will be able to address some of the premium charge concerns that several people raised already, as some of us have heard that rates are higher than Betfair's.

[gstar1975]

I was wrong. Thailand is accepted. I double checked on the reg page and thought it was not on it. That list is accurate I am told.

Hi Edna, If a UK citizen moved to another country thats not on the list for Betdaq, but still had a UK address and Bank Account and had a Betdaq account before they moved, could they continue to use that account whilst in the country not on the list of countries but use a vpn to access and trade on Betdaq, is that within the terms and if not could it be included?

No, VPN is not permitted.

Betfair allows VPN so maybe your missing out on customers because of that policy, and may be worth a rethink. People want to be safe online and keep themselves anonymous.

And what about VPS usage? Betangel offers this service so are you saying we cant use that to access Betdaq?

[Betdaq]

Hi Edna, If a UK citizen moved to another country thats not on the list for Betdaq, but still had a UK address and Bank Account and had a Betdaq account before they moved, could they continue to use that account whilst in the country not on the list of countries but use a vpn to access and trade on Betdaq, is that within the terms and if not could it be included?

No, VPN is not permitted.

Betfair allows VPN so maybe your missing out on customers because of that policy, and may be worth a rethink. People want to be safe online and keep themselves anonymous.

And what about VPS usage? Betangel offers this service so are you saying we cant use that to access Betdaq?

I have asked that we look at our policy around VPN usage. There will be a policy around it in the same way Betfair has a policy but there might be ways that we can improve it.

[Betdaq]

I find this part conflicting, not sure if you've got your percentages wrong or you calculate "PC" differently when you say "99% of customers on here will not be impacted by a charge". What do you base that on considering that most people on here are PC payers and/or have large turnovers etc. Thought the point of this thread was to engage with API users to try and bring some of that turnover over to BD.

Why hide your PC structure and calculations, as far as I can see there is very little disclosed on the BD website besides "certain profitable customers and customers with heavy usage of the exchange".

We arent hiding it as we do not have a calculation to give you. If your 100% maker vs 100% taker you are not treated the same. If you are involved in US sports vs Greyhounds you are not the same. Do you want us to work off of a computer says no model? We want this sharp API business and this is not something you will get everywhere. We want to be more competitive than Betfair and work with customers.

Let me rephrase then please with a simple query, what is your maximum possible charge?

I would say that when discussing commercial terms with corporate API type customers that we would have a cap at 33% for 100% takers.

Everything we do is bespoke and it is not about PC for us. It might often be a small adjustment from 2 to 2.5% commission.

If we were to roll out an ABC type of PC then surely it has to be a bad move.

[Betdaq]

I'd echo what Kai says...

Looking at the markets I'd be interested in on Betdaq they have virtually no turnover but on BF I know that BA users account for 30% to 40% of the volume of those markets (and that is just the users I know about)

Looking at the prices on offer (on Betdaq) there is, potentially, a big opportunity to beat those prices and get some volume on those markets.

But need to clear what the commission terms are upfront.

A situation like this would allow me to offer terms which are possibly much better than Betfair. I think I have a really good example of a corporate API customer we have who pays less than 2% commission as his Yield (Profit to Commission ratio) is high. If we left them on the standard 2% net win commission it is possible that they may not be able to offer up as much liquidity to customers.

If we just say that BD has 10,000 customers and if 100 of these are PC right now. A rules based approach might suddenly impact 500 customers.

If a customer maintains a good yield then premium charge is very unlikely to come their way. We have no internal trading team to protect.

[Kai]

We arent hiding it as we do not have a calculation to give you. If your 100% maker vs 100% taker you are not treated the same. If you are involved in US sports vs Greyhounds you are not the same. Do you want us to work off of a computer says no model? We want this sharp API business and this is not something you will get everywhere. We want to be more competitive than Betfair and work with customers.

Let me rephrase then please with a simple query, what is your maximum possible charge?

I would say that when discussing commercial terms with corporate API type customers that we would have a cap at 33% for 100% takers.

Everything we do is bespoke and it is not about PC for us. It might often be a small adjustment from 2 to 2.5% commission.

If we were to roll out an ABC type of PC then surely it has to be a bad move.

Thanks for getting back to us on this. We all want the same thing really, another competitor.

Will try to have another look at Betdaq markets, would be nice for the upcoming Euro 2024 tournament if viable.