I was just reading a post on here and the author mentioned that he had qualifications in mathematics and I wondered how your past (or present) might have influenced how you became successful on betfair.
For what it's worth, my background is repairing large mainframe type systems in the 80's and 90's and quite often you could spend 24 hours on site trying to diagnose a problem (and equally important - define what the problem wasn't (two distinct things, but sometimes linked)). We had lots of training in ATS (Analytical Trouble Shooting) and Kepner Tregoe techniques and on complex faults you were trained to turn every stone over despite how unlikely you were find anything.
I think that has definitely helped me in my trading.
I have also loved Maths/Statistics and found it much easier than subjects such as English etc.. very right side brain!
Like many of you, I have tried LOTS of things on here and many dont work. The surprising thing is, the ones that do, dont always follow logic..ie they shouldn't in theory..(could throw pure academics off track?) - (I'm sure I have many to find too!)
I just thought it would be interesting to hear from you guys whether your background in in horses; trading, academic, business or whatever and whether you think it has helped you along the way (or hindered you?)
Equally you may find that there are successful people who think that no past experience has contributed to their success, that would be interesting too
Regards
Peter
How does your background influence your trading?
I was a number cruncher, and after completing my A Level Pure Maths with Statistics, I was trained as a bookmaker with Ladbrokes.
I think having knowledge of markets, how they are formed and especially on understanding areas of resistance has been instrumental in me being a full-time trader for 4-5 years
I think having knowledge of markets, how they are formed and especially on understanding areas of resistance has been instrumental in me being a full-time trader for 4-5 years
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superfrank
- Posts: 2762
- Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2009 8:28 pm
me: basic comprehensive education, no further education. mainframe programmer then developer of business intelligence systems/data warehouses for stuff like forecasting.
i guess my background should help a bit, but there's no correlation between education/training and trading success... some of the best city traders were previously east-end barrow boys.
i also used to be the firm's unofficial bookie, so have always understood risk/reward etc., but also used to be a bit of a gambler (and still have some of that in my blood which is definitely no help whatsoever!).
could be a decent thread this if everyone chips in...
i guess my background should help a bit, but there's no correlation between education/training and trading success... some of the best city traders were previously east-end barrow boys.
i also used to be the firm's unofficial bookie, so have always understood risk/reward etc., but also used to be a bit of a gambler (and still have some of that in my blood which is definitely no help whatsoever!).
could be a decent thread this if everyone chips in...
Superfrank.
If you are doing a census, then myself, secondary education, no college, no uni, no more qualifications other than what is required for my present business i.e confined space training and streetworks qulaifications. Worked my way up from less than nothing to a successful drainage business owner. No all about risk in business and how to balance books etc but unfortunately have no concept of gambling and even less of trading judging by yesterdays shambles is anything to go by?!
Roger
If you are doing a census, then myself, secondary education, no college, no uni, no more qualifications other than what is required for my present business i.e confined space training and streetworks qulaifications. Worked my way up from less than nothing to a successful drainage business owner. No all about risk in business and how to balance books etc but unfortunately have no concept of gambling and even less of trading judging by yesterdays shambles is anything to go by?!
Roger
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maycontainnuts
- Posts: 88
- Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2012 5:58 pm
I was a premiership footballer, I now bomb Betfair markets for a living 
I left school at 16 with no qualifications, .
At 18 i became self employed and over time started several small businesses, all were fairly successful but it certainly didn't make me rich.
i always liked a bit of a gamble in my spare time and got in to trading that way.
My background defiantly helped me out because i have always treated this as a business.
Even before Betfair I could tell you my lifetime gambling P&L
, not many can say that.
I always understood that money management was a huge part of it all.
At 18 i became self employed and over time started several small businesses, all were fairly successful but it certainly didn't make me rich.
i always liked a bit of a gamble in my spare time and got in to trading that way.
My background defiantly helped me out because i have always treated this as a business.
Even before Betfair I could tell you my lifetime gambling P&L
, not many can say that.I always understood that money management was a huge part of it all.
No real qualifications, failed maths GCSE, and labeled a "slow learner* at school. I was driven by a desire to leave a dead end career on hotels. On days off I taught myself to play with the stock market. I taught myself to analyse data,write spreadsheets and spent ages screen watching.
Like anything ,your success as a trader is as much to do with your determination to succeed. You also need to be in a position to arrange your life is such a way you can afford the time to teach yourself the skills,and be profitable, before you lose too much money and compromise your life financially.
I worked part time/traded part time, shared a rented house, sold the car and stayed single (!)for ages until I cracked it.
It was worth it.
Like anything ,your success as a trader is as much to do with your determination to succeed. You also need to be in a position to arrange your life is such a way you can afford the time to teach yourself the skills,and be profitable, before you lose too much money and compromise your life financially.
I worked part time/traded part time, shared a rented house, sold the car and stayed single (!)for ages until I cracked it.
It was worth it.
I am still very new to Betfair trading (10 weeks) but I have a long background in financial trading and have been involved in running many training seminars for aspiring traders. It is always interesting to see how a group of people, all receiving exactly the same instruction, would each go away and perform totally differently. This tends to indicate that personal psychology is a major factor in success or failure rather than simply the application of particular market analysis techniques.
One thing surprising thing I noticed particularly was that the trainees least likely to succeed were those with a computing background (not all I hasten to add, but most).
I think the reason for this it that programmers have spent their lives relying on direct cause and effect. They program their machines to take a series of repeatable actions. The computer will always do exactly what you tell it, and nothing else, time after time. If it doesn't behave as expected, you know that it is the programmer's fault and he can go and find out what is wrong with the logic in his code and fix it.
Tradeable markets don't work like that at all, they are prone to be chaotic and totally unreliable. You can do everything exactly right, place your trade in accordance with your ruleset and still lose, and there is no explanation, there is nothing to be learned or repaired. But those with a logical, problem solving background MUST find a reason for the failure. So they will go back over what happened and probably look at past data to try and find a new rule that can be applied to modify their actions, just like a computer program.
We all learn by trusting cause and effect and we are all bamboozled to some extent or another when it doesn't work and then we will hesitate when we should act because we are uncertain.
This is a very big topic and I could drone on for hours about it but, to sum up, yes, our background most definately influences our trading, and there is practically nothing we can do about it.
One thing surprising thing I noticed particularly was that the trainees least likely to succeed were those with a computing background (not all I hasten to add, but most).
I think the reason for this it that programmers have spent their lives relying on direct cause and effect. They program their machines to take a series of repeatable actions. The computer will always do exactly what you tell it, and nothing else, time after time. If it doesn't behave as expected, you know that it is the programmer's fault and he can go and find out what is wrong with the logic in his code and fix it.
Tradeable markets don't work like that at all, they are prone to be chaotic and totally unreliable. You can do everything exactly right, place your trade in accordance with your ruleset and still lose, and there is no explanation, there is nothing to be learned or repaired. But those with a logical, problem solving background MUST find a reason for the failure. So they will go back over what happened and probably look at past data to try and find a new rule that can be applied to modify their actions, just like a computer program.
We all learn by trusting cause and effect and we are all bamboozled to some extent or another when it doesn't work and then we will hesitate when we should act because we are uncertain.
This is a very big topic and I could drone on for hours about it but, to sum up, yes, our background most definately influences our trading, and there is practically nothing we can do about it.
Greetings,
When I started on this venture I had great fears as my maths was certainly very average and yet I have discovered this was not to be a hindrance at all. If anything it has dramatically improved. My background is in philosophy (logic) and as there are no jobs for philos. grads I work as a building contractor solving problems all day long. This definitely helps in conjuntion with a dogged approach and an inability to cope with failure.
Great thread!
regards Jon
When I started on this venture I had great fears as my maths was certainly very average and yet I have discovered this was not to be a hindrance at all. If anything it has dramatically improved. My background is in philosophy (logic) and as there are no jobs for philos. grads I work as a building contractor solving problems all day long. This definitely helps in conjuntion with a dogged approach and an inability to cope with failure.
Great thread!
regards Jon
Pattern recognition is likely to be very important to some strategies, way more than math skills.
Unfortunately the weakest part of any iq test I ever did was completing the next picture in a series. Give me a geometric number sequence any day.
Unfortunately the weakest part of any iq test I ever did was completing the next picture in a series. Give me a geometric number sequence any day.
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CaerMyrddin
- Posts: 1271
- Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 10:47 am
Very interesting topic.
I have a degree in Civil Engineering and was a good sciences student, but don't think it was really important to suceed as a trader.
I was talking to my brother recently and was telling him I believe there is a 'talent' that you can born with or not. Effort will always play an important role, but I do think that some can put as much effort as they want and will always be average at best. I like to compare it to being a pro football player. I could put as much effort as Messi, but wouldn't be able to play in the Conferece League
I have a degree in Civil Engineering and was a good sciences student, but don't think it was really important to suceed as a trader.
I was talking to my brother recently and was telling him I believe there is a 'talent' that you can born with or not. Effort will always play an important role, but I do think that some can put as much effort as they want and will always be average at best. I like to compare it to being a pro football player. I could put as much effort as Messi, but wouldn't be able to play in the Conferece League
I have background in accounting (charted management accountant) working for a global retailer and I look after retail accounting in particular. I’ve have a business studies degree and part of the course I really enjoyed was statistics & survey sampling which help me understand and more importantly appreciate what is pure chance and not regularly repeatable; and what can long-term value and so don’t easily discouraged with a few setbacks or get carried away thinking I have found a money making formula.
When I was at Uni, I used to go with a friend at bookies and he had a penchant for a flutter on horse racing and when I was looking at odds in fractions and how they changed over a period of time, I thought at the time that because it was all mathematic based there must be inherent gap to be exploited from but not really took interest until about 3.5 years ago when I started pursuing this on a part-time basis and find it really interesting. I guess background in accounting/finance makes it slightly easier to grasp some of the concepts. You still need to experience and try and monitor and interpret market movements, key drivers, most likely outcome and help you tip the balance over time in your favour. Though markets have tendency to change and evolve over time so you have to constantly adapt.
Also, working in finance help you with planning, executing, process making and review so that you don’t do thing haphazardly and hoping for the best outcome. Although this doesn’t stop me doing some crazy theories in practice, these things do stop me from constantly having stab in the dark.
Having used to period routines and checklist also helps in stay on track and makes continuous understanding and improvements.
Because I have to play around spreadsheet most of the day, it does help me in using spreadsheet as an additional tool and using formulae and calculation easier. Though I think I need to improve on vba.
On the downside over reliance on finance related skills prevent you from understanding nuances of the sport and how it affects price movement especially in-play.
When I was at Uni, I used to go with a friend at bookies and he had a penchant for a flutter on horse racing and when I was looking at odds in fractions and how they changed over a period of time, I thought at the time that because it was all mathematic based there must be inherent gap to be exploited from but not really took interest until about 3.5 years ago when I started pursuing this on a part-time basis and find it really interesting. I guess background in accounting/finance makes it slightly easier to grasp some of the concepts. You still need to experience and try and monitor and interpret market movements, key drivers, most likely outcome and help you tip the balance over time in your favour. Though markets have tendency to change and evolve over time so you have to constantly adapt.
Also, working in finance help you with planning, executing, process making and review so that you don’t do thing haphazardly and hoping for the best outcome. Although this doesn’t stop me doing some crazy theories in practice, these things do stop me from constantly having stab in the dark.
Having used to period routines and checklist also helps in stay on track and makes continuous understanding and improvements.
Because I have to play around spreadsheet most of the day, it does help me in using spreadsheet as an additional tool and using formulae and calculation easier. Though I think I need to improve on vba.
On the downside over reliance on finance related skills prevent you from understanding nuances of the sport and how it affects price movement especially in-play.